Green Building Forum - Proffesional or DIY? Mon, 25 May 2026 17:17:17 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91020#Comment_91020 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91020#Comment_91020 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:04:58 +0100 Paul in Montreal
Now onto the amateurs. Some amateurs are good and know all the applicable building codes for the jobs they're working on - the only problem is that some of the codes are not available for free, though public libraries are a good source. The main problem being an amateur, is that you often don't know what you don't know. It is this ignorance that is the real danger. A licensed professional will know what they need to know whereas an unlicensed one or an amateur may not. As is often the case in life, you usually get what you pay for.

At the end of the day, often the main difference between a professional and an amateur is that the former can complete the job at hand in much less time than the amateur. A good professional, though, will often work without any payment up front - at least, that's been the experience I've had with the licensed professionals I've employed on my projects. The more money a professional demands up-front, the more wary I'd be of their capabilities.

Paul in Montreal.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91021#Comment_91021 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91021#Comment_91021 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:17:08 +0100 JTGreen
I therefore don't really understand the gripes from those who have a) already installed solar PV or b) want to DIY. Existing solar PV haven't done, and DIY installations won't do, the needed capacity building in the solar PV industry (manufacturing and installation). And if they had and would, then the FiT would be unnecessary.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91028#Comment_91028 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91028#Comment_91028 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:17:55 +0100 jamesingram Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91029#Comment_91029 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91029#Comment_91029 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:31:59 +0100 jamesingram In some cases you then have explain to them what it is they're suppose to be checking for.
If you just crack on with the work , they will never be any wiser.

Self certifying trade bodies also have problems , good honest worker will do a good job . Its very easy for cowboys to use this system to do poor work on ever job other than the one they choose to be inspected.

I'd like to see Building controls take on all these various certifying rolls as independent inspectors working with the building industry , for a fee , to educate on and improve standards
Also they need to be given the power to come down hard on those how do not comply.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91033#Comment_91033 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91033#Comment_91033 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:20:40 +0100 owlman "Hi i'd like to give you some money for you to give me a bit of paper to show my works up to standard".
In some cases you then have explain to them what it is they're suppose to be checking for.

Point well made james. I had a case of that second comment recently.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91034#Comment_91034 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91034#Comment_91034 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:25:00 +0100 barney
Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91035#Comment_91035 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91035#Comment_91035 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:32:52 +0100 jamesingram
but i expect them (the BCOs) to be well versed in their area , which is, what is required for compliance .]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91036#Comment_91036 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91036#Comment_91036 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:46:30 +0100 marktime Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91045#Comment_91045 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91045#Comment_91045 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:51:18 +0100 barney
Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91053#Comment_91053 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91053#Comment_91053 Mon, 04 Oct 2010 20:01:40 +0100 owlman Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91099#Comment_91099 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91099#Comment_91099 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:02:22 +0100 barney
For sure many believe that if the BCO is happy then all is well - not true I'm afraid

Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91101#Comment_91101 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91101#Comment_91101 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:17:24 +0100 owlman Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91105#Comment_91105 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91105#Comment_91105 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:33:09 +0100 barney
I suspect BCO will then revert to a policing role

Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91111#Comment_91111 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91111#Comment_91111 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 11:52:38 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: barneyI suspect BCO will then revert to a policing role

As in investigation when something goes wrong?]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91119#Comment_91119 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91119#Comment_91119 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 12:33:17 +0100 barney
Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91183#Comment_91183 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91183#Comment_91183 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 00:20:36 +0100 sinnerboy Posted By: marktimeSo sinnerboy, not for you the house by Walden Pond.

Don't know that one marktime - can you link to it please ?]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91185#Comment_91185 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91185#Comment_91185 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 00:35:59 +0100 sinnerboy Posted By: owlmanThen if the design team are all professionals, architects,structural engineers,electricians, et al each with their own professional body, why have the uninformed BCO at all. They could self certify and do away with a whole raft of expense and buearocracy.

Posted By: barneyI suspect BCO will then revert to a policing role


This IS the Irish system - Professionals certify compliance with B Regs with the exception of Part B - Fire .
One must make a detailed application ( drawings , calculations and written report ) for a Fire Safety Certificate and coming soon with respect to Part M - a Disability Access Certificate .

Local Authorities do some spot checking . Occasionally a client will be asked to provide evidence that they are building in compliance . The analogy with traffic cops is apt . You may be stopped and checked quite a lot for a period and then not for longer periods .

Lately a lot of them are requiring that DEAP ( SAP ) calcs are provided at Planning Permission application stage to demonstrate that the design is capable of complying with Part L . This is somewhat controversail some beliving that panning and Building control matters ought to be "policed" separately - I don't agree actually . But there is no Building Control Approval application per se as it exists in England and Wales ( are as existed when I last worked there in 1995 )

In practice the issue of b regs compliance is "enforced" when Certificates of Compliance ( .... which may ONLY be provided by professional ) are required to be furnished as part of the conveyancing process .

The DIYer often comes a cropper then if s/he can't furnish certs]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91187#Comment_91187 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91187#Comment_91187 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 06:37:15 +0100 biffvernon http://www.solarpowerahouse.com/
It describes how to do DIY solar pv - including fabricating your own modules.

American, so does not address the FIT issue, but there's a lot of useful information, useful even if you are buying a professional system.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91189#Comment_91189 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91189#Comment_91189 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 08:39:26 +0100 fostertom Posted By: owlmanthe numbers of DIYers doing the more complex stuff is very small and it's better to give genuine help than have it done secretivelyIf that approach works for cannabis users ...

The future will undoubtedly allow and encourage the great wells of energy and creativity that DIY contains. Or if it doesn't, that's another way we're doomed. DIY is the only way when you're colonising a 'new' outback, with plenty of space for everybody (apart from the natives). A bit later on, when you have a crowded and litigious megaloplis to show for it, then resort is made to the nanny state, seemingly 'safe' but in fact just an expression of general decline of human spirit due to the neuroses of biological overcrowding.

This is the main reason for popular suspicion of the EC - growing 'rational' regulation vs good old British pragmatism and tradition is blamed on the EC rather than an inevitable consequence of overcrowding and over-speeded lifestyle designed to make us buy stuff.

There's been plenty of work aimed at solving this conundrum for the better - from Ivan Illich onward (and before). It's something that both liberals and self-reliant republicans could agree on - making empowerment of individual resourcefulness a priority, even in an urban society. That's exact opposite of what we have now, and all the urban despair and disconnected behaviour that results. It's a major plank of Transition Towns, by implication at least.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91191#Comment_91191 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91191#Comment_91191 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:03:43 +0100 Joiner
PV fitting companies aren't all in it because they give a monkey's about the environment, and even those that do probably have a particular standard of living as one of their aspirations!

Christ, I remember going to CAT when it was still just emerging from a hole in the ground, the spirit driving the place one of can-do-effing-must-do. The occasional slide-rule, but generally one of suck-it-and-see and pass on info on what worked. Seems that spirit now survives only in the land of the free. As they say on that site linked to by Bif...

"But what is really costing so much to solar power your home with traditional solar installation?

For one, the labor cost to solar power your home is high. Traditional solar installation requires technicians that must mount solar panels on your roof and they don't work for minimum wage.

Also, solar panels themselves are expensive. To accommodate the needs of an average sized house, you would need to use multiple solar panels which can add up to a lot of money if you're buying them at retail.

If you're having a professional install your solar energy system for you, get ready to pay huge mark ups on everything from the solar panels, to all other equipment, to solar installation charges.

As a result of all these factors, you end up spending a lot of "extra" money (to the solar installer) just to try to save some money (on your utility bills)."]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91194#Comment_91194 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91194#Comment_91194 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:16:55 +0100 SteamyTea Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91197#Comment_91197 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91197#Comment_91197 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:30:40 +0100 owlman One of the biggest element in that cost is having to "prove" compliance. The indications are that such proof will have to involve professionals at every stage.

True; If the meter says that the thing is working and power is being produced, that's compliance. As far as I can see the only bit that requires professional experise is grid connection and a bit of internal wiring.

,]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91209#Comment_91209 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91209#Comment_91209 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:26:50 +0100 barney

Well to be fair Joiner, I wouldn't want some numpty up on my roof with a suck it and see approach and I suspect you wouldn't either.


"Are any members of this site working for Building Control?"

I don't work for BC but I have contacts and ex colleagues in several LABC departments as well as in private BC organizations.


Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91215#Comment_91215 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91215#Comment_91215 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 11:18:34 +0100 owlman Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91223#Comment_91223 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91223#Comment_91223 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 11:57:00 +0100 marktime ]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91226#Comment_91226 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91226#Comment_91226 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:16:13 +0100 DamonHD
Can you hear the sound of half-a-hand raised?

Rgds

Damon]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91227#Comment_91227 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91227#Comment_91227 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:35:34 +0100 orangemannot A complete non-corrolation beteen the planned works/specifications and the actual installed works.
Repeatedly seen with my own eyes.
Self levelling concrete.......erm "slump test" anyone.
Sewers diverted using 4 No 90 deg elbows under a floor to avoid a wall, try rodding that one.
Floor tiles "boast"
Walls cracking
Floors not level
Copings on a roof on a gable end wall NOT secures simply sitting under their own weigh until one blew off
etc
etc
etc
etc
Oh yes & Plumbing not correctly installed.
And dont mention the play area construction
and this was all "professional" work
scheesh]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91228#Comment_91228 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91228#Comment_91228 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:42:04 +0100 barney
Not an uncommon problem - although perhaps more reflective on the fact that a client often appoints on a lowest cost first basis (for both his professional advisors and his contractors) and relies on a contract rather than appropriate supervision to get the job done.

Regards

Barney]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91232#Comment_91232 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91232#Comment_91232 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 13:20:47 +0100 Joiner
Given the commitment of those concerned with environmental issues at that time and the conviction needed to sustain that commitment in the face of a growing consumerism that treated all forms of energy as an infinite resource, there weren't many numpties around. Unless you counted the woman running the restaurant at CAT, whose sole conviction seemed to be that anyone who didn't want to eat nut roast, or a variation, at every meal wasn't worthy of her time. That a few of us took ourself off to the local pub for a bacon sarnie brought on a fit of near apoplexy and a stony stare when next we entered her establishment.]]> Proffesional or DIY? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91233#Comment_91233 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6367&Focus=91233#Comment_91233 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 13:24:16 +0100 owlman Hands up who didn't get the Walden Pond reference and couldn't be arsed to google it.

Me too, gave up, hand up:- Waldon Pond Massachusetts? Safron Waldon duckpond? go on marktime give us a clue.]]>