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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    No I wasn't laughing! I was just wondering if tea tasted ok when the water wasn't boiling. I was also thinking of the problems people are having with condensation and how simple its solved using a simple heat exchanger with a few motors.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011
     
    Posted By: djhI recently read a paper that estimated in detail how much water is produced by all these sources, I'll see if I can dig out its details.

    It was TenWolde & Pilon 2007 - The Effect of Indoor Humidity on Water Vapor Release in Homes. Available at http://www.ornl.gov/sci/buildings/2010/Session%20PDFs/71_New.pdf
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: jamesingram
    Dehumidifiers , use energy and from what i 've heard are ineffective.

    I recall reading on this Forum of several people who have found them useful. e.g.
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6556

    On the energy side, wasting energy is of course a no-no, but virtually all of the energy consumed by a dehumidifier becomes heat and if that heat is useful in itself it might be seen as a win-win in at least some cases?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011
     
    Win-win is not having the problem in the first place. But know what you mean, useful is useful, shall leave fridge on and door open when I go out next.
    • CommentAuthorjules
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011
     
    If the condensation problem is mainly on windows, improve your glazing. It's obvious to replace single glazing with 2G, but we get condensation in one particularly cold bedroom (three outside walls) on 10 year-old 2G. I suspect that if I replaced that with even A standard 2G let alone 3G I would eliminate the problem. Issue of course is cost. If you have nasty UPVC like us you can replace only the glazing, not the window, but even that ain't cheap.

    I am certain that showers are far worse than baths, as the water is airborne and in small droplets.

    We have single room HRV fans in our bathrooms and utility/drying room on a humidity sensor. Not cheap, but a viable solution if you're not doing a major refurb, so long as you close the bathroom door until the moisture is cleared.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: julesbut even that ain't cheap

    Cost me about £12 for 4-16-4 by 460mm by 840mm pain bought separately. Dirt cheap.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011
     
    What on earth? Where did you get that price?
  2.  
    Yes do tell ST - I would love to put new panes into my windows as some point (simple job as very lucky with wooden construction of window and door frames) but I just assumed it would you prohibitively expensive and that it will never happen.
  3.  
    3Gs around £80-100 m2
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011 edited
     
    Gawd I wish I'd gotten anywhere near that price.

    James: I don't suppose you fancy a trip to London to fit 3G that you've procured do you?

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011 edited
     
    But thinking on, the 2G at that price won't be coated or gas filled will it, so then there's no point changing what you've got in the first place :S
  4.  
    Jules wrote
    If the condensation problem is mainly on windows, improve your glazing.

    We did this, a big double picture window with balcony door between, lots of condensation and cold. Threw out the windows. Opening lights only frames left alone) and replaced them with 2 fixed 130cm x 130cm 1.1U argon DG glazing units. The ventilation taken care of by the balcony door. We have not used the radiator in that room since! Condensation gone, but we now have mould on the landing which never happened before the new glazing.

    Bad windows are good dehumidfiers

    Peter.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2011
     
    I got that pane summer before last but as I want to do the back door very soon I shall ask them what their prices are now and what it is for coated and gas filled (see Painting your roof white as the glazing I used for that was from them). Big advantage living in one of the poorest places in Europe is that prices are keen on some things. I am 300 miles SW of London though.
    • CommentAuthorRobL
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2011
     
    I've been upgrading our old 4:16:4 upvc windows, from U=2.8 to U=1.2. I got 3 sealed units from a local company for a total of £180 for 1m^2. Then I looked a bit further afield (30 miles) for the rest, and got a total cost of £840 for 29 sealed units, 12.3m^2 (that £68 per m^2). Prices include VAT and delivery, I'm South East UK.
    All of the new ones are warm edge, most of them have low iron glass for good south facing windows heat gain, and most of them are toughened.
    I've only replaced the 3 kitchen ones so far as I'm awaiting delivery for the rest, but the difference from the old ones is great. It's virtually impossible to steam up those windows now.
    So far I'm very pleased with the improvement - new windows are magically better than the old ones !

    Also had a go using squirty foam into the PVC cavities... it's a bit of a messy job, and I could only do half of them. I didn't do the bottom cavities (possible water exit region), or steel reinforced bits, or window panes directly under other panes (just in case water found a way through). I'm not sure how much difference it makes, but it's cheap so why not?
    I love squirty foam - I did our back door using it. Bit bodgy, need to tart it up still, but it works.
    • CommentAuthorjules
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    RobL
    How easy are the sealed units to replace? I wouldn't know where to start when it comes to taking one out, and you only really get one go. £68 per sqm sounds interesting (I'm in Surrey).
    • CommentAuthorRobL
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    Well, I guess it totally depends on your window frame. I've done our wooden previously single glazed front door, and am doing most of the upvc windows. The wooden door was *very* time consuming, needing loads of routing to cope with the extra window depth. It was originally fixed with putty, so I had to make drainage holes, all in all a bit of a labour of love !

    We have 2 types of upvc windows- most of ours are internal access ones - ie the glass unit is inserted from inside the house. These are the ones I'm replacing, and I haven't attempted the other type (yet). For these internal access ones, there's a plastic clip running the perimeter of the window, which is a 2 part moulding - a rubber bit touches the glass, and a hard pvc bit touches the frame.
    I used a sharp kitchen knife in the gap between clip & frame to prise it apart, then pushed in a wide scraper, then progressively thicker bits of metal. The last one was about 2mm thick, and wiggling this makes the clip unclip from the window. I suggest that you do this on a window you don't see much of to start with, until you get the technique. It's easiest to unclip the longest section of a pane first. On ours, I pushed the knife into the gap, pushing as though through the window towards outside, ie at 90degrees to the wall.


    The external access windows have clips on the outside, so you could gain access to the house from the outside if you knew how to ! On ours, the clips are upvc, but they are older "one shot" moulding, and there's a separate rubber seal strip which is a bit manky & stiff and should be replaced on ours if ever I replaced these panes.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    I can get the units in and out of my aluminium windows OK, but is it actually worth upgrading the glass in these or does amount of thermal bypass in the frame make it pointless?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    do the frames fave a thermal break in them? (less than 25 yrs old most likely will have)
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    There's a 10mm thick hard black resin-y stripe if that's it.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 10th 2011
     
    yep, as good as it gets for ali
    • CommentAuthorjules
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011
     
    RobL
    Thanks for that. Any chance of whispering your £68/sqm supplier?
    Ta
    • CommentAuthorjules
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011
     
    RobL, SteamyTea, thanks for your whispers.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011
     
    Me too please? :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011 edited
     
    Shall have to ask then about being an agent :wink:

    Seriously is there any real problem giving out info on people that we have been happy with, maybe KeithGB can set up a thread and vet the suggestions.
    Naming and Shaming is a different issue, as is promoting our own services/goods.
    • CommentAuthorRobL
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011
     
    Hi evan -
    Check where do you get condensation first - the pattern that you get will indicate the window temperature distribution, and hence the local U value. If the frame gets condensation first before the window, then it's probably not got a thermal break in it.
    I find our original windows got condensation first on the glass perimeter, near the metal spacer bar, then this would creep in to the window centre.
    All the best !
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2011
     
    Cheers all!
    • CommentAuthormike548
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2011
     
    my makeshift dehumidifier was a plastic bottle filled with ice placed over sponge/tissue paper. seemed to work.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2011
     
    I would call that an in house cooling system!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2011
     
    How is the ice made?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2011
     
    Maybe they should make ice and carry it outside to melt :wink:
   
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