Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:48:31 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99429#Comment_99429 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99429#Comment_99429 Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:48:24 +0000 joe90
How can an inspector do this when he knows nothing of the materials and manufacture process. What certificate, if any, should I ask for from the window supplier to show the inspector?.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99432#Comment_99432 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99432#Comment_99432 Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:59:00 +0000 Joiner
Take a look here, Joe...

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=5701&page=1#Item_10

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=4085&page=3#Item_2

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=5170&page=1#Item_5

A bit of a slog, Joe, but you need to be sure of the questions you're asking, and why, to get an answer because some of the window companies are putting out misleading information. A mate of mine picked up one ad from a window company in a local free rag and the company had to back down on its claim that all windows had, by law now, to carry an energy rating label.

I'm reluctant to give what might sound like a definitive answer here simply because of the variations between local authorities and their BCO's understanding of the new Regs and how to enforce them. I'm inclined (until a little more time has passed for things to straighten out) to advise a quiet word with the local BC department and ask what they'll be looking for. And note the name of the person you're talking to.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99451#Comment_99451 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99451#Comment_99451 Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:57:22 +0000 CWatters
Ask the BCO what paperwork and standards he wants you to meet. Ideally get it in writing or at the very least write back to him to confirm the information he gives you on the phone. Try and speak to "your" BCO rather than whoever is in the office.

As Joiner says he may refer you the WER system in the current regs (See 4.19-4.23 of Part L for existing buildings)...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2010.pdf

or possibly the old center pane system (see the now out of date edition of the regs. Table 2 page 20)...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2006.pdf

Perhaps worth noting that you can't just go by a U-Value quoted by the window company. You need to know if they are quoting the U-Value of the whole window unit or just the center pane value (old regs).]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99463#Comment_99463 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99463#Comment_99463 Mon, 17 Jan 2011 19:40:37 +0000 joe90
I will Email him and ask for confirmation of what certification, if any, is required.

Many thanks for your help

Joe ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99487#Comment_99487 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99487#Comment_99487 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 07:50:32 +0000 Joiner
I used to make contemporaneous notes of every telephone conversation, every meeting (whether on site or council office), and send copies of same to the council official I'd had the dealings with, with a request to put that copy on file. On at least two occasions this proved the clincher when a different case officer was assigned to the job because the original official become unavailable because of illness, holiday, or just moving on. I'm afraid I've never been very diplomatic when I've experienced "differences in interpretation" between council officials, at times I've pulled the tape recorder (usually about my person anyway, for surveying jobs) out and stated my intention to record the conversation and that I was sure no one would object because no one was going to say anything they'd later deny - were they?

It isn't pleasant having to take that line, but the frustration and resulting anger at being messed around (the last occasion cost my customer £2,500 in lost grants because of totally avoidable delay) will have been experienced by many on here.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99490#Comment_99490 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99490#Comment_99490 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:56:37 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Peter]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99493#Comment_99493 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99493#Comment_99493 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:25:24 +0000 Joiner Sorry Peter, but...

"either a letter or minuets"

Presumably you play the accompanying music off a tape on the recorder?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99501#Comment_99501 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99501#Comment_99501 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:26:45 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99503#Comment_99503 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99503#Comment_99503 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:50:36 +0000 joe90 ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99516#Comment_99516 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99516#Comment_99516 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:44:00 +0000 Joiner ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99572#Comment_99572 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99572#Comment_99572 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:57:47 +0000 DarylP
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2010.pdf

... you can either select a whole window U value of 1.6w/m2K, or a centre pane value of 1.2 w/m2K ?

If you go for Rehau uPVC frames, you will be able to get a BRE 443-type cert from Rehau.


Good luck....]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99580#Comment_99580 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99580#Comment_99580 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:33:23 +0000 biffvernon
The second criterion for a green window is that it will last at least a couple of centuries without using any poisonous chemicals.

Sadly, the Buildings Regulations are blind to such things, making outlaws of those of us who make really green windows.

There are further criteria to ask about, such as did the maker walk to work and was his electricity generated close by from renewable sources and was his workshop shared with swallows and bats and are there roses growing round the door?

Buildings Regulations just don't a holistic view of the industry.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99582#Comment_99582 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99582#Comment_99582 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:40:27 +0000 Joiner Exactly.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99590#Comment_99590 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99590#Comment_99590 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:07:29 +0000 joe90 ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99595#Comment_99595 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99595#Comment_99595 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:08:44 +0000 DamonHD
I'll just go and lie down now.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99635#Comment_99635 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99635#Comment_99635 Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:07:57 +0000 Joiner ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99698#Comment_99698 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99698#Comment_99698 Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:00:02 +0000 biffvernon Posted By: joe90I wish Biff was my BCO, I would have no problems at all.Ha! You'd have to weave your new house from stuff you've grown or dug from the garden :)]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99707#Comment_99707 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99707#Comment_99707 Wed, 19 Jan 2011 23:08:53 +0000 joe90 ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99751#Comment_99751 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99751#Comment_99751 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:45:04 +0000 batkinson and remember the paragraph which appears in all of the approved documents about who is responsible for acheiving complance with the regulations- its the person carrying out the work, the designer and ultimatly the owner]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99761#Comment_99761 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99761#Comment_99761 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:02:07 +0000 Joiner
I knew the BCOs I worked with very well and knew their particular little idiosyncracies and allowed for them. But then I was a belts and braces guy when it came to complying and the fact that I always kept a written record of what was said, when, and by whom, and then made sure all the various departments got a copy, meant that a quick reference to the file before a site visit ensured we were all singing the same tune. It also helped that I ALWAYS consulted the BCO on my case (not that that was a guarantee that the same one would stay on the case) at the initial stages, even though it pissed off a couple of them because they couldn't see the point! Hmmm.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99766#Comment_99766 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99766#Comment_99766 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:49:29 +0000 Dominic Cooney https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99773#Comment_99773 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99773#Comment_99773 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:32:01 +0000 joe90
I was asked to provide structural engineers calcs for RSJ's and roof design, this I did and when it was built the BCO asked for additional timbers because he said "their structural engineer preferred it that way", when I pointed out that their structural engineer passed what my structural engineer had designed he still said he wanted it done!!!! This does not instill confidence in me but I did it as I do not want to upset him as he has to pass the rest of the build.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99774#Comment_99774 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99774#Comment_99774 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:33:44 +0000 joe90 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99775#Comment_99775 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99775#Comment_99775 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:00:18 +0000 Jonti
Jonti]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99778#Comment_99778 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99778#Comment_99778 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:22:25 +0000 jbm75 help!
Jamie]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99784#Comment_99784 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99784#Comment_99784 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 00:08:36 +0000 CWatters
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1A_2010.pdf

Table 2 sets out lower limits for the performance of individual elements such as windows. However pay attention to the note in 4.20 which says..

"In general, the achievement of the TER is likely to require significantly better fabric performance then is set out in Table 2"

In other words if all the elements are as bad as Table 2 it probably won't comply overall.

If it's not a dwelling look at 4.30 and Table 4 in here...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL2A_2010.pdf

Proving the old windows meet any particular U-Value might be a problem (eg can you still get the maker to issue a specification?)

I think I've got that right. Horribly complicated these days.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99787#Comment_99787 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99787#Comment_99787 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 07:50:21 +0000 Joiner https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99825#Comment_99825 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99825#Comment_99825 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:08:22 +0000 joe90
"I confirm our phone conversation that the windows to be installed will have to have documentation to show it has been tested to either show a U-value of 2.0w/m2.k or better or with a rating of "C".

Also my customer wanted me to ask if we could re-use some of his existing double glazed windows and the helpfull BCO said:(and confirmed in writing)

"I can also confirm that in this instance as discussed there is the option of reusing the existing window as long as they are used in the extension of that room. They will also need to be a minimum of a double glazed uPVC window in good working condition".

So the customer is happy to not have to buy new windows for two rooms. The BCO went on to say this was a local arrangement after a discussion into the "carbon foorprint" of throwing away servicable windows that could be re-used.

Jonti, yes you are right, I would not be happy if I were the SE and an unqualified BCO (a BCO that is not qualified as a structural engineer) questioned my design (especially as the councils SE cleared the calcs) . However, as I was only asked to insert two additional timbers that could not compromise the design and I did not want to upset the apple cart I put them in.

Joe90]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99874#Comment_99874 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99874#Comment_99874 Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:04:44 +0000 jbm75 so says the dyslexic builder.
many thanks Jamie]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99915#Comment_99915 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6827&Focus=99915#Comment_99915 Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:48:52 +0000 Joiner
Back in the mid-80s I was works manager for a very big replacement window and door manufacturer. Rather than send the mis-sized d/g units (usually the fault of a stupid rep or domestic customer who couldn't use a tape) for scrap we'd sell them off to local building companies with their own joinery workshop (a rarity now) for fitting into windows/doors for which the right sized hole could be built into the wall. Often the only reason for their not being used was a difference of a couple of mil off a standard size, so if you could accommodate that difference by spacing during the fitting no one would know the difference.

And having also worked for a window fitter supply company, I know that they will retain units until they need the space. In this instance the units have usually been ordered the wrong size by either the fitter or one of "us" in the office and the issue has yet to be resolved.

So it might be worth having a word with your local glazers or window company and ask to be given first option on mis-measures.]]>