Most building trades are only paid while they are actually "building". So they are looking to get on & off site as quickly as possible with the minimum of up front work, finishing or risk of remedials. They do not want to be at the leading edge of technology because there are often surprises & consequent delays. They much prefer working with the materials/details they've used before or to a design given by someone else that they can use to quote against.

So they are looking for jobs to fall into one of two categories:

a) Small Scale Domestic - home owner knows what needs doing, but leaves it to the main contractor or tradesman to choose the materials, quantities, specification, etc. Typically there are only outline plans & no written specifications;

b) Contract - architect provides plans & specifications.

I suspect you are falling between those two categories. You have some idea of what you'd like to achieve, but they are not yet fully formed into drawings, specifications, bills of quantities, etc that someone can quote against. Have you thought about engaging an architect?


David

It is a great idea to renovate to passivehouse or better (minergie?), hope it goes well

I would always avoid big companies with big overheads for smaller jobs which yours is

try to find a local builder with a good reputation.

And yes green building is far more recession proof than normal bad building, but the recession is over which is more likely why you are struggling, and a lot of Poles have gone back and the olympics etc....

Thanks guys,

One of the problems is that they are not even returning my calls to find out what kind of job it is. My house is large so we are looking at a project in line with doing a terrace job-lot. The online grant gives estimates for 80m2 being average and I am looking at a factor of 10 so I would have thought big enough to entice a company.
As far as spec goes I am currently drawing up a detailed schedule of works. I am not an architect but am keen on large scale DIY (as a consequence of not being loaded). I am learning to use the CAD software. I have drawn a scale plan of the ground floor, scale drawings of, eave, window, foundation details etc (such as I see in professional documents).
I am not keen on architects. In my experience they just complicate matters. It is hard to find any that understand what you are trying to achieve and care as much as you about the end result. They always want to add their own twiddles and don't take kindly to being told to 'just draw what i describe'! Maybe we have just never had the right architects! I think it is probably easier for me to draw the plans than teach an architect what I want (passivhaus seems to be unheard of in Northern Ireland, the Republic seems to have more knowledge).

In the end of the day I think I am going to have to go for number 2 but I am not prepared to compromise. I think I will try and get a local builder and I will remain on site for all the work, DIYing some and project managing the rest. It would have been nice to have had at least one quote to compare. I didn't even get a reply from the 'greenbuildingstore' re a large Paul MVHR. It is frustrating that it looks like this is going to be more of a slog than I initially thought.

Good news re the windows though. I have taken a chisel to the wall and they will be easy to remove. They have a nice brick surround under the render which will make room for an angled reveal. I will box them out into the insulation layer and remove another thermal bridge!

Thanks again.
Paddy

Thanks JMS.
Maybe this is a case of unknown incompetence but I feel I can write the spec reasonably well. I am going to do it all in advance and am currently going over the whole house with a fine tooth comb (hence all my posts re detailing). I was going to write what I would take to be an idiots guide to each and every detail, including drawings and description. I was hoping that if I got a local builder they could keep a copy of the spec and any time they came to a tricky bit I would have pre-empted and have a detail for it. I am sure things will pop up as we go along (like any restoration). Also I think it is important that the builder would understand the general principles of the workmanship I require and that I will be checking during and after.

I know it is more work for the builder and having a fussy client may be annoying but I think in this case there is no other option. It appears to me that the difference between a house and a passivhaus is detail. The builder knowing that he cant just throw his hammer onto the membrane and then ignore the puncture is important. A local recommended builder may have some more 'invested' in the project also. I would hope that they would find it interesting as it is not just another job.

We will have to wait and see I suppose. I would like to document this every step of the way so I will probably make a website. I am getting so much info from here and other places so it would be nice to make the information I gain along the way available for others. Also it would be interesting for me to record progress.

thanks
Paddy

Oooooo: "architectural technologist" is new term for me, and sounds like a useful concept. Off to have a quiet word with my friend Google... %-P

Rgds

Damon

Our experience of suppliers has been exactly yours, no reply. I know the names of the kids and how many came for Christmas without asking but not if they have stock of insulation board which I did ask, twice. Stockists do not carry stock, five days lead becomes two months whilst the manufacturer closes for refurb or moving. I cann't imagine this happening if I was straight forward and wanted Kingspan. Green Building materials are not in their infancy but unborn and looking likely to be still born.
None of this rant applies to Pen Y Coed who got me my Warmcell and Panelvent at the very best price with no hassle, rare exception.

Hi,
I would echo Robin’s comments 100%. Anything remotely off using what is simply served up by the local merchant isn’t going to happen unless you personally take control yourselves.

For me just trying to get them to do the basics right and to a good standard probably doubled the time and was extremely time consuming and stressful as well.

I wasted months trying to get eco this that and the other, no one would quote outside of “that’s what we normally do – so that’s what you get”. I had to give up much – yet another set of drawing changes - as it simply wasn’t going to happen. Buildings man (used building technologist) said told you so. No point in designing something the local builder won’t do, and realistically unless it’s a mega job can you expect tradesmen to travel say 100 miles or more each way to do jobs – that’s when you can find them.

It was taking months and months – yes they can afford to turn away the business because of the perceived risk which most probably will turn into an actual problem as they are not familiar or willing to work with the materials. If you take to procuring these materials your self then there is a big % loss of profit to them as a big slice of what you pay is the difference between the builders price to you and the actual price paid.

In the end the heavy work was done by the builders and everything else was me – took nearly 2 years of evenings.

I laugh when I see on the TV all this get 3 quotes rubbish, it takes 6 months to get 1 and then you don’t know if it grossly under with umpteen extras to come or way over as a gussestimate.

The other one that makes me groan is sit down and discuss with your builder – arrargh – he not yours for starters, you’re his punter, and if you need to discuss that much with them it’s a big turn off because again they cant come in and do what they did last week, last year, last century and sub bits out to others, it becomes too much of a bespoke job. From their point of view a knowledgeable customer is potentially “customer from hell” so beware. So unless you’ve an endless cheque book that isn’t going to happen.

It’s turned me into a sceptic; cost me a lot of time, grey matter and money. Bit of a rant I’m afraid but the truth is just because its discussed here doesn’t mean they all want to do it. There is much truth in if you want something done properly do it yourself.

As to the original question - I would say it is recession proof to the extent that really good guys will always be in demand, to those others it wont make any difference green or not.

Cheers

Mike up North

Found this link some time ago. It maybe the dreaded village you talk about but I think he teaches 'green building'. If you contact him you he may be able to put you in touch with a builder who is willing to work with you. It sounds like a big EWI refurb project, so whoever works on it will gain experience and have work for years to come as councils etc refurb. http://ecohousebuild.posterous.com/

Thanks wookey,
My work is hopefully going to start in a few months so your experiences will be very interesting. I think I will have problems finding even a moderately 'green' builder so I think the best thing is a compliant local builder who will take instructions. I too take ages to do CAD drawings but am quietly pleased with the results. I am sure they are not professional but they appear to convey everything that I wish to convey and that is really their purpose. I think it may be cheaper my way but obviously all the risk will be mine and I will have to dedicate quite a bit of time to it. Currently it is all I think about with an obsessional vigour which bores anyone prepared to listen!!
I will probably start a website soon as I think it would be a good way to organise the information that I am gathering and also of compiling my various individual CAD details. I will see what happens this weekend depending on weather. Unfortunately the garden is awakening from it's winter slumber and soon it will be vigorously competing for my time.
Thanks
Paddy

Thanks joiner,
I am not overly Internet savvy but my intention is as above. So much of the encouragement and the knowledge required to do this has come from this forum, it feels like a GBF project. Hopefully if I put lots of pics online I will continue to get useful contributions from everyone. The problem is finding the time!
Thanks
Paddy

Why not drop down to Dublin and have a look at a few houses renovated to Passive House standard? It might save you making some of the mistakes I made!

Thanks Viking. I have just had a local guy in who was recommended by a neighbour. Down to earth fellow who didn't seem fazed by my wacky ideas. He had surprising knowledge of MVHR, and external wall insulation even though I don't think direct experience. I get the impression I should be able to work well with him but I will see how things pan out.

I may just end up in Dublin some time if I lose my confidence with my plans!! This guy seems to be focused on the roof and I may well need another team for the walls at the same time but finances are tight. If you think your guy in Cavan may be interested it certainly wouldn't hurt to look into it.

By the way I am working on a website to collate my plans. It is very much in the 'off the top of my head' stage but I would be interested in any comments/suggestions.

http://web.me.com/pmagowan/Site

Thanks again Viking