Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.
Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
 Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




Renewable Energy: Windsave 1000

Bottom of Page

1 to 21 of 21

  1.  
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2011
     
    We were in the first 250 to buy a Windsave, and although it has worked, eddying has meant it hasn't been very effective. However, the inverter has now failed, so it's doing zero! It's not worth buying a new inverter to put on this turbine, but does anyone have, or know of, an unloved Windsave inverter - or a secondhand one that is looking for some work to do?
    Or does anyone want a Windsave turbine - free to a good home!

    Thanks

    Tony
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2011 edited
     
    As a matter of interest - how many years have you had it and how many kWh did it manage to generate? And did you get a grant?

    If no one else wants it you could send it to me. I would pull it apart and use it as a educational aid.
  3.  
    Don't mean to deprive Ted, but South Yorkshire Energy Centre (www.syec.co.uk) may like it too. On te other hand, I believe in 'first come, first served'. Our original Planning Permission included a W/S. I met one which had managed about 157kWh in (I think) 2 years. (P.S: I don't work for SYEC now.)
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2011
     
    Installed December 2006. 950 units on current inverter, plus about 250-300 on the original one. Call it 1200 units in 4 years. Yes, we got a grant, so a nett cost of £1100. 92p/unit! If Ted and Nick would like to let me have direct e-mail addresses, we can get in touch if we decide to take it down - which now looks the most likely route. Does the "Whisper" box permit private communication?
  5.  
    Does it *have* to be a W/S inverter? What abt a S/H grid-tie inverter? (If such things exist!). If a subsseq owner was to run it as standd-alone, how about a cheapy 'square wave' inverter?

    Nick
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
     
    No, it doesn't have to be a Windsave inverter. But with the turbine only producing 300 units pa, it doesn't make sense to buy a new inverter and put it on a low performance generator. I've had a quote for an SMA Windyboy, but I'd need the 'new' system to run for about 40 years to make economic sense. If it had generated the 600 - 900 units pa anticipated, it might well have made sense to add a good quality inverter. I was looking for an old WS inverter (a) because the wiring would be simplest and (b) because it wouldn't be expensive. So far, I've spent £1100, and generated £200 of electricity. Since it only generates about £50 of electricity pa, there is no point in spending more than a few hundred pounds at this moment.
    One thought: the present installation isn't earning FiT. If I put a new inverter on, would it be legit to call it a new installation, and register for FiT? That is the only possibility of it making sense to spend real money, but I doubt if that would be legit.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
     
    If you were on ROCs before then you should automatically have been moved to a miserly version of the FiT scheme: did that happen?

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
     
    No, WS didn't register/qualify for ROCs. Don't know why. I think it was all about the 'keep it simple, keep it cheap' philosophy. After all, it's not very often that a 1kW turbine will actually export electricity!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
     
    Then I think you haven't a hope of getting FiTs with that kit, I suspect, though given that you have the infrastructure in place such as meters that have been established as safe for exporting, and a DNO that had already given you permission (eg via G83) to connect, doing a new FiT-paying project that works may be cheaper. I just relentlessly expanded my solar PV each year until I (almost) ran out of roof!

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2011
     
    The turbine would have to be MCS accredited to qualify for FiTs now so that's never going to happen for a WindSave.

    There was actually no reason why you couldn't have registered for ROCs and then moved to the 9p FiT - but the deadline for going that route ran out 12 months ago.
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2011
     
    Two people did express a possible interest in this defunct WS1000, but it came to nothing. One more thought, before I take it down: it is the inverter that has failed, as far as I know the turbine will still generate. What about disconnecting the inverter and using a voltage controller to charge up a Leisure battery, and running something low-powered and non-essential off it? Anyone any comments or experience?
    Thanks
    Tony
  12.  
    Tony, funnily enough I was just thinking about your W/S today, and wondering much the same thing. Given the low output I am not even sure it need be a very beefy controller or battery. Have you got a shed? External lights? Any nice discrete load....

    Nick
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    We've encountered a problem with using a charge controller and a battery; unable to source a charge controller at a reasonable price which will take the 1kW max output. Next idea: could I simply put the output from the turbine (DC) into an immersion heater, and warm up some water?

    I don't suppose the heating element cares which way the electricity is going! The snag would be that if we gave a 3kW element designed for 240V only 24V, it would only use 30W - which is neither here nor there!

    If we could buy a low voltage immersion heater element, we could install it in a new tank, and use that as a pre-heat for the hot water, or (possibly) as a boost to the central heating. But do such things exist?

    Or ... or ... or?

    All ideas and comments welcome.

    Tony
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    1000/24 = 41A so make sure to use fat wire.

    Google found...

    http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/faq.html

    Q: I was hoping to use whatever energy I generate to heat water. Could you advise on the best way to proceed?
    A: Beewind sell a 300 watt water heater which farmers seem to use, mainly for stopping troughs freezing in winter. They have a 1'' thread and can be screwed into your domestic immersion heater draincock hole.

    Q.Can you recommend a 3 phase rectifier and if you have its cost. Also the only inverters I can find are rated up to 600w do you know of any of higher power and not too expensive. What are your thoughts on direct connection to a conventional 240v heating appliance, e.g. some form of immersion water heater or do you know of any low voltage equivalents?
    A. The 3 phase rectifier kit we use consists of 3 single phase rectifiers. This is the lowest cost way of rectifying 3 phase to our knowledge. The kits are £16.20 each. There are inverters rated up to 8kW available.

    There are low voltage immersion heater elements available which are designed to operate on 12V or 48V. These fit into the drain plug of a standard heating tank. You could connect the turbine to an immersion heater element, but a 3kW element will only produce around 130W, so would not act as a suitable load. A 9kW shower element will give you about 400W at 48V and this is slightly better than using an immersion heater.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011 edited
     
    Better still

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-VOLT-WATER-HEATER-IMMERSION-solar-wind-turbine-24V-/150575834698?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item230f04e64a

    24 VOLT DC
    IMMERSION WATER HEATER
    13 Different Wattages Available to suit your own generating system.
    500, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750, 800, 850 900, 950, 1000.Watts


    PS: You will need to think about the thermostat. The contacts in that won't handle 41A so a relay or similar will be required.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    Can you buy an off the shelve inverter from ebay
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    Yes, you can use a heating element as a dump load, often very effectively and it won't care whether its fed with AC or DC. They don't quite scale linearly when it comes to power with a given terminal voltage though, as the resistance of a heating element changes as it heats up. This means that at lower temperatures it will have a lower resistance and so may absorb more power than linear scaling might suggest. Also, you can connect heaters in parallel to lower the voltage. Many tanks have two immersion bosses, one at the top, one at the bottom, so this may help. You may even be able to get hold of an 115V immersion heater intended for use in the US (not sure if they have the same boss size, though). If you fitted two of these, wired in parallel, then you'd easily be able to absorb the maximum rated power of the turbine, as my guess is that its full speed voltage might be quite high.

    Another trick might be to see if the alternator can be rewired to up the voltage to better suit the load. If its a three phase permanent magnet machine (as many are) then it may be wired in delta. If so, it could, perhaps, be rewired to star, which would increase the output voltage by a factor of about 1.73, albeit with a commensurate drop in current (in other words, the power stays the same).
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    Just Googled the generator type and it is based on a 90mm AEG motor.

    May be one of these:
    http://www.lafert.com/lafert/az/products_zoom.php?id_az=6&id=1431
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite>Just Googled the generator type and it is based on a 90mm AEG motor.

    May be one of these:
    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lafert.com/lafert/az/products_zoom.php?id_az=6&id=1431">http://www.lafert.com/lafert/az/products_zoom.php?id_az=6&id=1431</a></blockquote>

    Pity there's a dearth of info on there about the motor/generator. However, given the tiny diameter of this thing it was never going to deliver a meaningful amount of power, was it? I've been looking at an odd electric boat project recently and this was about the maximum rotor diameter we could accommodate. As it could only produce about 70 watts or so at 5 m/S and we needed around 200W at this wind speed to overcome hull resistance and air drag we dropped the idea.
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2011
     
    Wow! That's a lot of good ideas, just in one evening. Thanks everyone - I now need to follow these up, and work out what to do!

    Many thanks

    Tony:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthoringleside
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2011
     
    I thought I'd better give you all the latest (possibly final) chapter. The inverter failed - some components were damaged, and melting on the PCB, so presumably due to an overload situation. Since it was only generating £50 pa of electricity (most optimistic assumptions) no point in fitting another WS inverter (£600) or a Windyboy (£800). We tried to find a charge controller, so that we could charge a battery for a non-critical use, but couldn't find one capable of taking 300 Volts and 1kW. We then explored wiring in an immersion heater element, and simply warming water, but the snag is that it will be in the circuit all the time, and so at low wind speeds nothing happens - the turbine will remain still. It only produces electricity at higher wind speeds, and here (Fen country) we get a lot of wind, but not a lot of high speed wind. So since the benefit would be a lot less than £50 pa, we decided it wasn't worth spending the time and effort on sourcing a suitable element, and fitting it into the tank. We've now taken it down, and have a taker, who can get it mounted in clear air above his ridge pole, and will fit a decent inverter. Since it won't be MCS approved, and he will have to get Planning Permission it may not be economic, but it should be interesting - and fun.
    Many thanks for everyone's thoughts and ideas.

1 to 21 of 21

  1.  
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
Back to Discussions Top of Page
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press