Home  5  Books  5  Magazines  5  News  5  GreenPro  5  HelpDesk  5  Your Cart  5  Register  5  Green Living Forum
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



 



Zurich Connect Home Insurance

Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




  1.  
    Despite the supposed support at a national guidance level, Local authority level support for anything that doesn't at least look like a Victorian idyll seems to be somewhat patchy... "you want to externally insulate you house sir?, what and cover up the bricks...ha ha ha [planner laughs manically for 10mins]... I don't think so...anyway why on earth would you want to do that....?" etc, etc...

    Therefore thought it could be good to have a thread where we could gather together successful tactics, references for supportive local and national planning policy documents etc as well as first hand experiences.

    Now, I am normally amongst the first to engage in planner-lampooning however it would be good if we didn't stray too far from the point here, we all know the system/individuals are problematic but the question is how do we become successful within the context of that system... and besides we could always open a new thread specifically for tales of planner ineptitude ....:devil: (the LPA 'expert' on micro generation recently told me how supportive the LPA was of urban wind turbines... as long as it was nowhere too obvious like the top of a hill and ideally where no one could see it...) :cry:

    J
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     
    1.put in an outline application with 3 or 4 alternative indicative designs (plans only),
    planners do not know which one is real (usually i include an underground version).
    2.always go for much more than you actually want.
    3.always go to appeal.
    (lots more to say, but this might kick it off)
    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     
    Perhaps:

    Include a note on the Energy White Paper from which the Climate Bill is spooling: Clause 8.18

    "• Underlining that applicants will no longer have to demonstrate either the overall need for renewable energy or for their particular proposal to be sited in a particular location;
    "• creating the expectation amongst applicants that any substantial new proposed developments would need to source a significant proportion of their energy supply from low carbon sources (including on and off-site renewables);
    "• encouraging planners to help create an attractive environment for innovation and in which the private sector can bring forward investment in renewable and low carbon technologies; and
    "• giving a clear steer to planning professionals and local authority decision makers, that in considering applications they should look favourably on renewable and energy developments.

    As most town plans are based on standard "pre-earth warming" technologies and ways of living, it may take decades for this to be worked out of the system.
  2.  
    Well 'have just had the pre-app' advice back from LPA, essentially the view seems to be that the application has to stand on its own feet but could swing things at committee.

    However am now preparing the application and will include a draft Code for Sustainable home Rating.

    One of the challenges seems to be actually getting the oficers to actually read what you submit.. since the introduction of Design and Access statements we are forever having to refer the officer back to said document in answer to questions already addressed therein, showing that they blatantly brush over any supporting info. Covering letters are also no good as I 've just found out officers don't actually open they're own mail, as soon as the admin office sees its an application it all gets shoved into a pile of new app's given to whichever officer is available...:cry:

    I think the best thing is to get the policy references, sustainability approach physically on the drawing, as well as in a supporting info pack.

    J
    • CommentAuthorNanuls
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2007
     
    Hi James, what sort of location is your application for? i.e. how does it relate to the built form, or is it in open countryside?
  3.  
    Urban infill plot on a street, I would like to think that I designed it to relate pretty well with the streetscene, indeed no negative comments at pre-app re the building only a concern about amenity space.

    The hope was that the sustainability may allow some leniency in the rather prescriptive guidance used

    One of the big issues is that pre-app advise seems to all too often in my experience to not reflect in the determination, and its a bit of a lottery as to whether the officer who gave the pre app advice would be the one to actually determine the application.

    J
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
     
    james, bit difficult to comment without seeing the proposed design and the context, but urban infill generally should be supported. you do not say if you already have outline and if that had indicative proposals?
    have you ddressed the lack of amenity space comment? what specifically did they not like: lack of garden, no where to dry clothes?
  4.  
    The issue was more the fact that the garden was at the end of a 10m long path, but plenty of total space, am speaking to a landscape architect I know 2moro so we can add some real design input, and make it work a bit better, the pre app drawing only showed the 'red-line'.

    To be honest decided against the outline application, as the LA here tend to ask for nearly as much info at outline stage so bit of a waste of time.

    J
  5.  
    Any advise on getting Sustainability on to the agenda of the average officer...?

    J
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
     
    They need to learn what it means first!
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
     
    it will come about slowly but the basic problem is that it contradicts the principles of the present planning system which is use class based i.e in a 'spatial' planning system which we are now supposed to have the most important criteria are that there are a mix of uses to create vibrant, viable and, of course, sustainable communities in which people choose to live. The system we have is always gravitating away from this in order to separate uses as shown on the adopted local plan and embeded in the status quo. The only way this will be overcome is through education and example. Every town,community, neighbourhood, street will have to have good examples of sustainable design so that they become the norm.
    By the way, it is always good to submit and obtain outline approval because it only gives approval in principle no matter how much detail you are asked to submit, that is why a process involving 3 or 4 indicative designs is so helpful eventually in achieving what you want rather than what the planners (who can't design and will not be living there) want. Something I often do is to put in an outrageous or oddball detail scheme and an outline with several options; it throws them in to total confusion!
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2007
     
    Hi,

    Found this thread on google when looking for help with eco house planning permission. I have gone through pre-application discussion (although there wasn't much discussion from the planning dept and they took 3 months to get back to me) for an earth sheltered home to be built in the countryside and used for sustainable living.

    The councils Housing in the Countryside policy has the following wording. "Pilot projects creating eco-friendly houses. Such proposals may be supported where a rural setting is required and the project is linked to the management of land or use of land for sustainable living". There is no supplementary guidance to support this one line. The planning officer I spoke to wasn't entirely supportive of my proposal and admitted that there isn't enough detail in this policy to allow them to make an informed decision. Does anyone know of a more detailed local authority policy on building an eco house that I can make reference to?

    I have even tried the Scottish Government planning dept and they don't have any policies or guidance for eco homes/communities. As an aside the planner I spoke to said than an earth sheltered carbon neutral home with rainwater harvesting, ground source heat pump, reed bed system etc may not be 'innovative' enough to meet their intention behind the policy!!

    Any guidance much appreciated.

    Stuart
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2007
     
    You could try looking at the Pembrokeshire 'Low Impact' Supplementary Planning Guide which is the first of its kind in the UK.

    http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/ObjView.asp?Object_ID=2700

    This is a little OTT for a single house but should give you a good flavour of what is involved.
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2007
     
    Thanks Ted,

    You are right it is a bit OTT for a single house and looks to be more applicable to a community living entirely off the land. Not sure if this is a very open minded forward thinking council or if this policy is designed to make it very difficult to get planning for this kind of development.:confused:
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2007
     
    The latter seems a fair assessment of the current situation. :sad:
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2007
     
    stuart, earth sheltered eco-houses are not at all innovative. if it was a way of getting round planning policies everyone would do it, lots have tried (get in touch with BESA...british earth sheltering organisation) for some examples of failures and successes).the environmental effects of a building do not disappear if it is underground e.g car, washing,garden etc.
    unless you are working on the land, the most sustainable place to build, and where you can more easily obtain planning permission, is within existing urban areas (this does not necessarily mean cities). there are still plenty of sites in towns and villages not washed over by green belt but you have to search for them.
    to discuss phone 01424 752311
  6.  
    Well wha d-ya know... Finally got round to talking to the neighbours about the house project (which is on the infil plot between our house and theres) and they've decided that the don't want us to build our house as it would stop them doing the same but would be very keen to do a 'joint venture' and build a pair of semis instead...!

    They are keen on the low impact and low energy design and want one too. There are big advantages in economies of scale / materilas discount and genuine cost savings by the more efficient envelope, but there are obviously some prety big pitfalls with a joint venture to avoid... time to see what my planner thinks...
  7.  
    Semi detached option submitted to LPA for further pre-app; eminently achievable comments returned from officer, next stop application.

    Interestingly, we discussed a CSH rating and there wasn't much interest, however he said that it could 'play well' at committee if it went that way.

    J
  8.  
    Well, my application has now been registered, of course this took 2 weeks ans so now we are actually in week 2 of 8.

    Put a glorious D+AS together spelling out all of the issues from sustainable housing based on extended families, to 'economic sustainability' etc also went through the policy in detail...

    ...Wow the 'Climate change supplement to PPS1' what a great idea.. sooooo supportive of what we're up to, however of course local policy determines the application and Sheffield policy was written over 10 years ago and ripe for an update.

    Well we can but try, luckily the pre app officer is determining so that s one fear allayed. Watch this space... (well if you want to, don't feel obliged...)

    http://planningdocs.sheffield.gov.uk/WAM/findCaseFile.do?action=show&appName=planning&appNumber=08/03734/FUL

    J

    (sitting and typing rather uncomfortably as both fingers and toes are all crossed....)
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     
    Just for info..I was told that "eco friendly and sustainable" carries no weight with the planners because ALL approved houses are considered sustainable (or they wouldn't be approved). Obviously their definition of sustainable differs.
  9.  
    Edit
  10.  
    Generally the concept of sustainability doesn't stretch far beyond location. Thats why any approved leaky house is considered in a 'sustainable location' because it is in a town or within a village settlement boundary (which is understandable), even though the occupant is perfectly entitled to commute 50 miles each way to work somewhere else, every day, in a big car, on their own.
    If your house is CSH 6 and you walk/cycle a mile or two to work, it doesn't matter if your proposed house is just the other side of the line on the map - it is considered unsustainable.
  11.  
    Wash my mouth out - I always criticse others for glib use of the 's' word, and there I went using it myself - perhaps what I should of added is low environmental impact in use and construction, in a location with good public transport links in a specific situation which through the ability to house exteded families close at hand provides econmic gain to the local authority. - or something...

    J

    :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorashtenr
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    My experience in scotland for what it is worth is that eco features carry very little weight with the planners despite the fact that they are supposed to. I think this is because alot of people (developers?) have been trying to jump on the eco band wagon to try to get permission when in fact their schemes are not that eco at all. We went straight to detailed and initially all the planner was interested in were normal planning issues, ie planting schemes, ridge height, roof style, roof coverings, massing etc and he was initially not keen at all on the plan. However at a meeting with him and the architect, the design was explained to him in detail and the reasons behind the design including things like the passive solar, balconies for shading etc. The planner then did a complete u turn and recommended for approval. Saying 'I wouldnt want to face this in an appeal'. I think this was due to the green element. However, my undertanding is that the planning law on appeals has just changed and so the appeal now goes back to the comittee that originally refused it! Crazy.
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    ashtenr - we are also in scotland. You did very well getting a meeting with the planning officer! We also went straight to DPP to try and fully explain all the green features and we went through the pre planning stage. Both times we got a letter telling us not to contact the planning officer and to wait until he contacted us. We tried to get a meeting but were told they were too busy. They have a 2 month turnaround target - decision expected by 9th Sept.
    • CommentAuthorrichardt
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    The planners at Scottish Borders were remarkably sympathetic and well informed. Friends in Hs&Is have said much the same.
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    ashtener - what part of Scotland are you in?
    • CommentAuthorashtenr
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    Stuart, We are building in Scottish Borders. We put the DPP in and just waited. Didnt call them, just waited for them. With the instructions that if they were going to refuse they should tell us and we would withdraw. It went far outside their own timeframes. Their deadline came and went then a few weeks later they wanted to meet up. So you could be waiting a while. As an example we applied in Nov, met up in Feb, received permission in March!
    • CommentAuthorashtenr
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    Here is a pic so you can see that the design was considered fairly contentious.
      076 pic 2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     
    Looks great! Is it south facing?
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press