There are two private members bills that aim to limit how close turbines can be to houses unless the owners give consent. Currently no wind turbines are errected without land owners permission and it's already common for developers to have to sign up several land owners to "make space". These Bills wouldn't stop wind farms being developed - but they would just mean more land owners being involved. Isn't that a government objective - greater local involvement?

Why not ask your MP to attend the following debates...

The second reading of Mr Chris Heaton Harris’s Onshore Wind Turbines (Proximity of Habitation) Bill will take place in the House of Commons after 9.30am on Friday 10th June. The Bill is placed at item number four on the Commons Order Paper. See:

http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/#/calendar/Commons/MainChamber/2011/6/10/events.html

You can review the wording of this Private Members Bill at:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2010-2012/0108/cbill_2010-20120108_en_1.htm

Lord Reay will simultaneously present the second reading of his Wind Turbines (Minimum Distances from Residential Premises) Bill to the House of Lords after 10.00am on the same day. This is placed at item number two on the House of Lords Order Paper.

http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/#/calendar/Lords/MainChamber/2011/6/10/events.html

You can review the wording of Lord Reay’s Private Members Bill at:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldbills/017/11017.1-i.html

How many anecdotes make a data? Rhetorical, ST, so don't come sciency with me.

Surfers on the south coast of Tenerife, El Medano, rated tenth in the world as a surfers paradise, are saying the wind and waves are disappearing. What used to blow for 300 days a year blows for less than 20 days a month. The response of AEMET, Spain's meteorological agency, is that they don't have wind data for this location but there is a measureable trend towards shifting wind patterns.

Wind farms are not taking over Britain's countrysideThey provide many benefits but in England there is still only one turbine per 100 square miles

or put it another way...

In each 10 mile x 10 mile square there is one turbine?

Obviously but she started it.

ST: "Depends on the distribution, how many times have I said that you cannot apply means to individual cases"

Couldn't resist it, eh, ST?

wookey, I bring a bit of dramatic license into your life and you chastise me for it. Shame on you.

Applying means reminds me of old saying "man with one foot in fire and other in bucket of ice has mean temp within limits but is he comfortable ?".

"Mathematics, the purest language there is"

All Greek to me!

More reasonably and on-topic: "University of Adelaide acoustics researchers are investigating the causes of wind turbine noise with the aim of making them quieter and solving 'wind turbine syndrome'."

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news45881.html

Joiner wrote: "Martin, it's worth having a read through REF's summary of performance."
Done, quite interesting.


.and wrote.."where you'll note that opposition to wind as a consistent alternative to ff isn't as unfounded as you believe, or rather, that unqualified support for wind despite its inconsistent nature isn't as wise as some would argue".
I am well aware of the limitations of intermittent RE; ideally intermittent sources should be paired with large hydro, but we are not one of the lucky few countries with major large hydro resources, so we need to pair it with open cycle gas turbines (or preferably gas turbines which can run as either open or combined cycle).The REF are keen on biomass, but I am a bit squeamish about starving peasants to death just so that we can import loads of biomass. So the role of biomass needs to be limited to wastes and what we can grow in the UK withour reducing our food production.

Solar is a non starter in the UK because its annual output profile is the exact reverse of our demand profile.

"Solar is a non starter in the UK because its annual output profile is the exact reverse of our demand profile"

You won't find anyone on here suggesting solar can be anything but part of a very wide mix, Martin, and then a relatively small component. The storage capacity built into most of the solar thermal systems mooted on here makes it a very viable resource and, certainly as part of community systems, has the potential to be a significant player overall by reducing demand on the mainstream supply chain.

Pv is another matter. Daytime electricity supply is needed and to supplement individual household (and community) systems there are quite large areas suitable for such installations in the form of redundant airfields, and indeed airfields generally. Again, as part of the overall mix.

If you're familiar with MacKay (and I'm a recent disciple) then none of this will come as a surprise.

I'll just reiterate what I've said before. I personally accept the inevitability of wind farms now that lobbyists for wind have managed to get the planning system skewed in their favour. I would add the proviso that they should be just PART of the overall mix, but that's said more in hope than expectation because of the exagerated significance placed upon their contribution by the dedicated pro-winders. Meanwhile, more consistent systems currently founder because of lack of r&d funding, the argument being that whilst "we can and will be getting more energy from wave and tidal power; [...] this is 10 years down the line" (Maria McCaffery, The Guardian, Thursday 2 June 2011. See above.) I'd love to know where she gets the "10 years" timescale from. Possibly from a realisation of the damage done to the development of those systems by the diversion of funds to the wealth-making subsidies paid to wind.

There are numerous potential energy sources out there which deserve further research. The link posted by Cwatters is worth a listen: http://www.evworld.com/evworld_audio/dennis_bushnell_part1.mp3 (The link is to an AUDIO presentation. The detailed explanation of LENR starts at 7.30 minutes.)