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Renewable Energy: Grants for solar thermal and heat pumps installed from today onwards

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011 edited
     
    http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/renewable_ener/incentive/factsheet/factsheet.aspx

    Grants towards solar thermal and heat pump installations onwards. Conditions apply - see link. It seems these are an interim measure until the Green Deal and RHI are sorted out.

    (I've copied the link from the RHI thread to give it a more relevant title.)
  2.  
    I'd be really interested to hear from users of this forum whether they think the premium payments are high enough to encourage uptake. I think it's good that government is using this interim period to monitor installations and see how they are used, and how they work in practice, and feed that into the design of the RHI, but wonder whether they'll get anywhere near the 25,000 applications they anticipate in the six months of the scheme.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011
     
    I'm pretty sure that there are nowhere near enough installers to carry out that number of installs in 6 months - bearing in mind that ASHPs still require planning permission and that, apart from solar, the RHPP is only available to houses off the gas grid.

    MCS currently lists :

    - 635 ASHP installers
    - 545 GSHP installers
    - 138 biomass installers
    - 911 solar thermal installers

    and a lot of those are the same companies that do more than one technology.

    I think that the EST may be handing out lots of vouchers that never get cashed in.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011
     
    Not a chance.......! :cry:

    ... I mean they are not high enough......oh well...
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011
     
    on the grounds I was looking at the technologies anyhow, I will probably take them up on their offer

    If I wasn't, I don't think it's enough to persuade a mass conversion from other fuels to renewables - but maybe that's not the point. £12m doesn't go far, but might be enough to tempt in a reasonable number of semi-willing people, who would by nature likely be receptive to having it monitored and controlled properly - in order to provide enough information to roll out a full and more efficient system for the proles.

    -Steve
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011
     
    If it doesn't incentivise a large enough roll-out then any data gathered will be of limited statistical relevance.

    Even 25,000 homes is only a 0.1% sample and given that there are, maybe, 20 or 30 different home types the coverage of some of them is going to be a very small sample indeed.
  7.  
    Glad to see they only offer incentive for ASHP, GSHP and Biomass to
    "Houses not heated by gas from the grid"

    I'd prefer it if they offered us some money to EWI our homes before fitting one of the above, though.
  8.  
    Posted By: YouGen-CathyI'd be really interested to hear from users of this forum whether they think the premium payments are high enough to encourage uptake.

    I think what would provide sufficient information to encourage uptake would be Renewable Heat Tariffs analogous to the Feed-In Tariffs for PV. This would allow for meaningful comparison of the various domestic renewable options available over the lifetime of the schemes and allowing an informed decision to be made. The continuing uncertainties over RHI and even its description as an Incentive act to discourage domestic use of renewable heat options and damage the prospects of that part of the industry. Unlike FIT which is financed by a levy on energy producers the RHI will be paid by the Treasury. I suspect they are very happy to reduce the cost while still trumpeting the Greenest Government Ever slogans.
    Posted By: YouGen-CathyII think it's good that government is using this interim period to monitor installations and see how they are used, and how they work in practice, and feed that into the design of the RHI [...].

    That may be true for some renewable heat technologies such as air source heat pumps which have relatively limited deployment in the UK. However, solar thermal is a mature and extremely well understood technology. Collectors are tested and their performance characteristics are well understood. Software exists which can accurately predict the performance of solar thermal collectors in much the same way as PV.

    The only benefit I can see from further rounds of monitoring and consultations is further delays. To the Teasury, a payment delayed is money saved. If monitoring were required there are many post-July 2009 solar thermal installations which could have been monitored! These will have used MCS certified equipment and installers which is a requirement for the eventual payment of RHI. It would appear that some of these installations could potentially be refused RHI because their loft insulation isn't thick enough.

    My other concern is that by linking RHI with The Green Deal this just gives further reasons for delay should that too be delayed.

    I may be cynical, but I see the dead hand of the Treasury all over this. The only people likely to benefit are PV installers.
  9.  
    I am installing a GSHP as I am off mains gas. The voucher that is mentioned however is only valid for 6 months and the grants will be on a first come first served basis. That is fine in my position as will be in my house for Christmas (2011) but not for many. I do not think 6 months is long enough. Am I missing a vital point or is this a little flaw?
    Gusty.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011
     
    Posted By: tedapart from solar, the RHPP is only available to houses off the gas grid.

    I don't think it's as restrictive as that. At least my reading of the EST site was that you mustn't be using mains gas as your main heating, rather than it mustn't be available. So as I read it, you could get a grant to have a heat pump or biomass stove fitted even if you have gas connected to the house, just as long as you don't have a working boiler.

    Or did I miss some other wording somewhere?

    Posted By: john_connettThe only benefit I can see from further rounds of monitoring and consultations is further delays.

    I think the point is that it gives them more options to balance the eventual RHI rates and other conditions between the various technologies. If they fixed the solar thermal rates now, it would tie their hands for the other technologies to some extent. (Of course, the PV FIT has already done that ... but they get a chance to adjust that next year as well)
  11.  
    Specific quote from the factsheet that the RHPP only applies to "those who are not connected to the gas grid and currently rely on fuels such as oil, liquid gas, solid fuel or electricity for their heating".

    You could possibly argue that this includes those who have the potential to be connected to the gas grid but are not, and are relying on the other fuels but I don't think there will be many of these. I think the spirit is clear that if you can connect to gas then RHPP doesn't apply.
  12.  
    MarkBennett,
    I agree. That is how I read it.:wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011
     
    Who determines "potential to be connected" - anyone can be, at a price - what price limit applies here? It says "who are not connected to" - nothing about potential.
  14.  
    Posted By: fostertomWho determines "potential to be connected"


    Not me!

    - anyone can be, at a price - what price limit applies here? It says "who are not connected to" - nothing about potential.


    Thinking aloud, I would propose that the cost of connecting the gas should be sufficiently low that it would be more cost effective to connect and install an efficient gas boiler than a suitable heat pump. Puts the connection cost limit at a couple of grand or thereabouts.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011
     
    Mark, I believe you're reading the wrong document. The factsheet says:

    "Important

    This is a summary of the full conditions. Please consult the EST website [External link]for details of how the scheme works and eligibility rules."

    Note it specifically mentions eligibility.

    AFAICT http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/RHPP is the only statement of the rules.

    It's clear that DECC has got its knickers in a twist again, whatever the real rules are.
    • CommentAuthormartin1974
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2011 edited
     
    We can have our ASHP installation invoiced before the 31st March but am I right in thinking it would have to be commissioned before this date too, to get the MCS certificate and therefore the grant? I only ask because our build is due for completion after the march deadline

    £850 is quite a sizeable grant towards ASHP (for new installations) especially if we still qualify for the RHI next year) i guess it's not so attractive if you already have an oil boiler that doesn't need replacing.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2011
     
    The Energy Saving Trust have published a RHPP FAQ document that may clear up some of the doubts surrounding certain aspects of the Renewable Heat Premium Payment scheme and how the eligibility rules would be applied.

    1. Only air to water heat pumps are eligible. Air to air heat pumps are not.
    2. A household that is connected to the gas main can apply but only if gas is not currently used as the fuel for their heating.
    3. The dwelling must be the primary residence of the applicant - holiday home owners (and MPs) need not apply.
    4. The residence must be a permanent building - boats, caravans, mobile homes and swimming pools are not included.
    5. A minimum 250mm loft insulation should already be in place, and cavity wall insulation 'where practicable'.
    6. Only installations that have been carried out since the scheme announcement on 21st July 2011 will be eligible. But EST say that they cannot guarantee a voucher for anyone who installs before applying.

    http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/content/download/2031641/7685510/file/RHPP%20FAQs%20v9.pdf
  18.  
    So what happened to the assurance that those installing with an accerditted MSC provider would be eligable for payments. I comply with all the criteria, accept that I installed in March 2011.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?

    RR
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2011
     
    That's RHI and still to come, allegedly... One view is these new vouchers are to enable more data to be gathered to set the RHI payment levels - to be launched later. Everything I've read suggests you and I would still qualify when/if it finally turns up.
    Robin
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2011
     
    Incidentally, I'm not sure that the EST wording for point 2 is correct and am awaiting confirmation from them on it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2011
     
    Here are the answers from EST to a couple of follow-up questions:

    1. Is this only available to houses not connected to the gas grid (I know solar is excepted). There is some ambiguity of wording where "gas used as main fuel" is mentioned. What happens where gas is only a backup fuel (gas fire in lounge) and where oil is used for central heating?

    You can still claim RHPP. As mains gas is not the primary heating fuel they will be displacing.


    2. Does RHPP apply to existing houses or can it apply to new build as well?

    Only householders occupying a house can apply for a voucher. So, for example where a householder applies for a voucher in respect of a main heating system in their newly completed house, or in the case of individual self-build at point of completion, this is eligible. However, neither householders applying in relation to an offplan development, nor installers or building developers in any case are in a position to apply – they would not be eligible.


    3. Can owners who have installed systems since 15th July 2009 apply for vouchers, or does that date only apply to the RHI proper? What is the earliest start date for a RHPP eligible installation?

    Installations made from 21st July 2011, but before the application for the voucher will be eligible. However, if you as a householder do commission or carry out an installation before receiving a voucher, it is at your own risk; and we can give no guarantee that you will receive a voucher. The Government or Energy Saving Trust will not be liable for any costs in relation to decisions you have taken on this basis. You may find as a result that you have committed to paying the full cost of the installation yourself. We would in general recommend not entering into any binding contractual commitment or otherwise pay out any money (including any deposit) for a renewable heating system before receiving a voucher.

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