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Housing - Renovation: 3G , what did we say was the best set up ?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011 edited
     
    Thinking of trying to get a local joiner to make up some wooden bifold doors and windows for me rather than going for fancy high quality excellent priced northern european imports .:bigsmile:
    I've been told
    4/14/4/14/4 Ug 0.7
    or 4/20/4/20/4 Ug 0.6
    so 40mm or 52mm units or bigger with 6mm
    Any thoughts on frame sizes required to make a good quality product as the usual 2G units are 24mm ish
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011
     
    The glass will be stronger than the frame but the sashes/doors will be very heavy! buy top quality window/door fittings and hinges/multipoint locks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2011 edited
     
    How will you prevent warping under enormous cantilever twist force? And draught sealing. Sunflex, Solalux etc use laminated softwood; cheaper cruder UK-made ones are hardwood, not laminated. Solalux SL78 3G 4-12-4-12-4 (36 thk unit) are 78mm thk to the opening lights - and remarkably slim frame members width wise.

    Just got prices: 2.4 high x 3.0 wide, 3 leaves
    Solalux SL66 2G £4813 incl £746 fitting charge = £565/m2
    Solalux SL78 3G £5668 incl £746 fitting charge = £684/m2
    No guarantee offered if not fitted by them.

    I-D (Sunflex) 65 (very similar to Solalux SL66) 2G £4590 excl fitting

    Albo 2G £7103, 3G £7529 4 leaf 3340 wide excl fitting

    UK made 2G hardwood by Bristol Bifold & Sliding Doors Ltd £3325 excl fitting = £462/m2

    My client went for the SL78! They look fabulous in the pics.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomHow will you prevent warping under enormous cantilever twist force? .

    You got me there ? :shocked:
    Good info thanks , though prices above my current budget ,
    Magnet/ BQ offer 2G fully finished HW Bi-folds around the £2500 mark to £3500 net for solid Oak for that size
    draught sealing not to good on them though,

    I was thinking one/two routed into sash and one in frame
    Yes need to be top quality hinges etc. got some in mind .

    Problem with the German imports i've used in the past is the're internal openers which doesn't suit the space for this project.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011
     
    use outward opening door hinges and locks then
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011
     
    No, the Germans can be inward or outward, or even centre-suspended I believe
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: tonyuse outward opening door hinges and locks then


    the internal and external openers have very different profiles in high spec ranges , more like uPVC
    lots of routes for draught strips, locks, shoot bolts and drainage channels etc.

    Be nice to find a local joiner tooled up to cut profile similar or just buy in the profiles to cut to casement/frame sizes etc.

    How about 3G unit make up , warm edge bar and argon fill , 1 or 2 panes low-e ?
  8.  
    The external openers tend to have much better airtightness seals since you can affort to have a drop down to the outside level. Internal openers need to be flush to the internal floor level, so tend to have brush seals at the bottom. With all the joints and hinges folding sliding doors are a big risk for airtightness, and brushed seals have got to be problematic over the longer term.

    We've selected Sunfold SFK82 (aluclad timber) in a 36mm 3g pane which appears to use a 4-10-4-14-4 spacing, for some strange reason, which gets to U=0.8W/m2.K. Prices seem slightly higher than Solalux, so I might need to take a closer look at these.
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2011
     
    Posted By: MarkBennettappears to use a 4-10-4-14-4 spacing, for some strange reason

    Different separations should reduce audio transmission, for one thing.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2011 edited
     
    Waiting for some quotes from local joiner and german manifacturer for the above.
    Started thinking about old style sliding patio door in 3G rather than sliding bifolds now, space 2400/2050,
    can get 3G 52mm unit 0.6 been told
    For-
    less mechanisms to go wrong over time
    Weight on floor rather than hung like sliding bifolds
    less to draught proof as just one opening door 1200mm ish
    less frame , more glazed area , more light
    Probably half the price ( the big plus for me )
    Against-
    heavy single opener ?
    less opening space for the 'bring the garden into your living space' thing
    probably have to be a Alluminium frame , low thermal value

    Still trying to think through the options for the best compromise of price and thermal efficiency
    when glazing a larger opening space such as the one above ( not keen on french door with side light as the opener needs to be one side, and would like to maximise opening space.)

    What the negatives of alli frames , I know wood/alli clad or wood are favourite , UPVCs fround upon
    Any thoughts on Alli ?
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2011
     
    Surely you can get timber framed sliding doors? What about sliding doors requires ali frame?

    here's one: http://www.greensteps.co.uk/sc/high-performance-windows--doors/greensteps-triple-glazed-windows--doors/triple-glazed-sliding-doors/90
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2011 edited
     
    thanks for the link . I'm still looking at the options, ease of supply is also a factor
    "What about sliding doors requires ali frame? "
    Weight, so ease of use, Longevity ?
    Price mainly , as in 3G for half the cost of the other options , but yes U value of 3G ali frame probably no better than U=1, will find out .
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2011
     
    Taking delivery of a wood-only 2.7m w by 2.25m h 3G "lift & slide" / "glass wall" door from ALBO in a week or so ...
    Chosen for clean/balanced profile compared to "tilt & Slide doors ... and pricing.
    will report back on whether it's easy to open/close ... (Sliding part is half of the 2.7m)

    (Didn't I read on here somewhere that Alu clad can cause rot on 3G in a way that is less likely with DG???)
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2011
     
    (Didn't I read on here somewhere that Alu clad can cause rot on 3G in a way that is less likely with DG???)

    ??? very unlikely --- sounds like nonsense to me.
  15.  
    thanks Mike , fancy giving me an idea ofthe approx. supply cost ?

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