Thu, 09 Jul 2026 12:12:54 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113824#Comment_113824 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113824#Comment_113824 Wed, 27 Jul 2011 23:35:44 +0100 Hairlocks
Is there anything I can do to the spec of the softwood windows to improve there life. The joiner sources his wood from http://devonhardwoods.ltd.uk but the Idigbo is not FSC but is Forestforever certified (If that actually means anything).

I really want windows that will last as long as possible, and not warp, as we are building our forever house, so will live in it for the 40+ years. but the banks will only lend me so much money.

What would you do?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113826#Comment_113826 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113826#Comment_113826 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:25:57 +0100 Sprocket Idigbo is a very rare tropical hardwood. Much if it is illegally logged. There is no such things as sustainable Idigbo.
Also connections with bushmeat trade in Africa etc etc. It's a complex subject.

Best (only?) tropical hardwood for concience is probably FSC Sapele.
Have you compared price for that?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113833#Comment_113833 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113833#Comment_113833 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:57:18 +0100 biffvernon
Make sure you paint the wood with a genuinely breathable paint. I would only use real linseed oil paint from the Swedish Allback, as supplied by Holkham Paints. Modern alkyd resin paints are the principle cause of wooden windows rotting.

Your windows will then outlive you. (Even if you are very young.)

Certification of tropical hardwoods is not at all meaningful - there is so much corruption. Just don't touch it.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113836#Comment_113836 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113836#Comment_113836 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:32:12 +0100 Joiner
Incidentally, it's my understanding that the 'Forest Forever' scheme started as a response to the revelations of corruption within the FSC "accreditation" labelling, introducing regular auditing of timber sourcing back to forest of origin in order to reassure importers and get some credibility back into the FSC label.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113843#Comment_113843 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113843#Comment_113843 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:28:41 +0100 owlman Mike]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113845#Comment_113845 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113845#Comment_113845 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:38:43 +0100 owlman https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113846#Comment_113846 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113846#Comment_113846 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:44:41 +0100 Joiner ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113866#Comment_113866 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113866#Comment_113866 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:12:25 +0100 Hairlocks
Does the redwood need painting or could I just use the maintenance lineseed oil and have a natural redwood finish?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113867#Comment_113867 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113867#Comment_113867 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:13:15 +0100 Hairlocks Posted By: JoinerAnd it can warp like you wouldn't believe! Hate the stuff with a vengeance." alt="" src="https:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/devil.gif" >

Is that idigbo or softwood. does redwood have that problem?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113875#Comment_113875 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113875#Comment_113875 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:42:57 +0100 Joiner
As for the 45% difference in price, it was more like 15% the last time I looked, but that was eighteen months ago. However, that said, within the OVERALL costs involed in making a window, the cost of the wood is (usually) the smallest element (excepting furniture) - unless you go for kiln-dried oak - compared to glazing, labour in making and fitting.

Given a choice I'd go for oak every time, and if softwood then Douglas fir without exception. The only "cheaper" hardwood option I'd go for would be sapele, which is a lovely wood to work with and looks great, as long as you don't mind the "colour".

These are sapele. 24 mm gas-filled units.

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/28ur1c.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/288a2q9.jpg[/IMG]]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113878#Comment_113878 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113878#Comment_113878 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:29:31 +0100 richy
Biff is correct, it's the finish which kills a lot of frames and gloss paint is the worst!]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113885#Comment_113885 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113885#Comment_113885 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:30:24 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary I would have thought similar opportunities would exist in the UK
Peter]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113887#Comment_113887 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113887#Comment_113887 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:12:52 +0100 Joiner
http://www.accoya.com/

A bog-standard "pine" window will last for a considerable time (and "considerable" is relative and wholly dependant on regular maintenance) if it's not neglected - and that's the problem here, property generally isn't maintained as it should be, but done on an ad hoc basis when things start dropping off or we get worried about what the neighbour's think.

I've made cheap "pine" windows that are still in good nick now, 19 years later, but they had oak cills and all cut ends were treated with wood hardener. They've also been rubbed down and painted every three years - with gloss paint! But then, they were people who couldn't afford much. Still proud of their house though.

Unless it's a conservation job, you make windows with whatever the customer can afford and tell them what to expect during the discussion of the options on the survey. As a tradesman, if you don't want to do what they're insisting on, then you walk away.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113890#Comment_113890 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113890#Comment_113890 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:05:49 +0100 owlman
I think what PIH is on about Joiner is the same stuff I mentioned in my post. It's not Accoya, it is as Peter said simply a core of three or four finger jointed laminations capped, with usually clear grade faces. The stability of the main window sections is excellent and the clear face lends itself to nice natural, or stained finish. This stuff has been used for years in Germany for eg tilt/turn windows. Without going down the road of the very technical Accoya, its a simple solution to the poor, often unstable, grade through and through cut solid softwood used by most British window manufacturers. I did however know of one UK window manufacturer who was using the stuff.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113891#Comment_113891 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113891#Comment_113891 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:22:26 +0100 Joiner

Accoya is expensive and (the last time I looked) not available in very practical sections, being more suitable for the system manufacturers making upvc windows in wood - there's one in the West Midlands somewhere.

Any idea what the stuff you're referring to is called?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113897#Comment_113897 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113897#Comment_113897 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:13:35 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Then transport to UK........
Peter]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113901#Comment_113901 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113901#Comment_113901 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:52:09 +0100 biffvernon https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113902#Comment_113902 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113902#Comment_113902 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:59:50 +0100 djh
I think what they're talking about is glulam. There are lots of other laminated products using varying sizes of veneers or strands; chapter 11 of http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/several_pubs.php?grouping_id=100&header_id=p has a description of the differences.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113903#Comment_113903 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113903#Comment_113903 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:00:09 +0100 owlman
I'm not aware of any specific or even generic name. It's just laminated wood. Go into any German Bau Markt for instance and all the windows are made from it. Knowing the Germans I guess it is in standardised sections to suit tilt/turn spindle/CNC cutters. Most likely though the mills, probably in the Scandinavian or Baltic states make it to order. I'll try and dig out the stuff from the UK firm that was making windows from it. As an aside, I specced windows from it for a prospective clients nice new build. In the end they went for bog standard stuff and had the temerity to call me in some time later to solve the problem of sashes that, once opened could only be closed with great difficulty. That was a time for the smug smile and, " told you so".]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113910#Comment_113910 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113910#Comment_113910 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:30:01 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113922#Comment_113922 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7628&Focus=113922#Comment_113922 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:38:12 +0100 Joiner Thank you. That was unexpected.]]>