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Products: Eco-Wool... Any good?

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    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
     
    Dimmable low enegy CFL's is that an Oxymoron ?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
     
    Anything (i.e. fluorescent lights incl. CFLs) that causes mercury vapour to fluoresce, or whatever it does, is bathing you in the characteristic frequency/harmonics pattern of mercury, the deadliest non-man-made chemical poison in existence. Homeopathically, that's a very bad idea, equivalent to ingesting mercury, which we all do from the environment, tho' many people go to great lengths to have it taken out of their teeth for example.
    • CommentAuthoradon30
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2007 edited
     
    I did my apprenticeship at a lighting company over 10 years ago. Back then we had dimmable fluorescents (18W+ tubes). It worked by controlling a high frequency ballast using light sensors or PIRs. A 0-12V input signal from these devices controlled how bright the lamps needed to be in a particular area. Thus dimming the lights and providing an even light source. Quite expensive system however.

    It will be interesting to see how they have controlled the lamps on a single wire 240V supply. (I've had a few thoughts myself of how it could be done.) Any links anyone??

    Sorry I've hijacked the eco-wool thread ;):devil:

    PS Found dimmables for £7.50 each (22.50 pack of 3) on the web
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2007
     
    adon30,
    don't they still use the same amount of energy when dimmed, IE as heat in the dimmer control
    • CommentAuthorjonomunday
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2007
     
    Going back to the insulation, my local B&Q has run out of eco-wool. The bloke on the customer service desk seemed to think they weren't getting any more in. Can i get it from anywhere else?
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2008
     
    Not sure if anyone has said this yet but I don't think this stuff can be used near electric cables? The info on that was obliterated by the postage label on the sample I was sent.

    I'm going to do a mini practical review on this stuff in GB4 so if anyone else has used it yet let me know how you got on please.
    • CommentAuthorTomW
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2008
     
    A couple of things I noticed using it to top up my loft last year. If you have non standard joist centres as I have, cutting the rolls to size is a complete pain, you can't saw them up like mineral wool, and they seem impervious to a stanley knife. I ended up cutting them lengthways with a large pair of sharp scissors, and that was hard work. It also did not assume the stated thickness in 24 hours, I left mine unrolled in the loft for several days and it only got to about two thirds what it should have been.
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2008
     
    Well spotted Tom. This is going to be a real hamstring for this product. I have got a roll in my workshop and just like you I have tried just about every weapon I have to cut it. It is near impossible. As you have pointed out, carpet scissors or really sharp garden shears seem the only options.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2008
     
    I have had a similar experience with EcoWool but thought it was just me being a weakling! As you say the fact that the stuff is virtually impossible to cut is definitely its Achilles heel; this is a shame because otherwise it is a delight to handle compared to your standard fibreglass or Rockwool quilt. I gave up with the EcoWool (luckily I only bought a couple of rolls to try) and went for the Knauf Space Blanket while B+Q had their 2 for the price of 1 offer last autumn. This is also nice to handle but cuts like a dream using an ordinary kitchen knife, and it reaches the stated thickness soon after removing the wrapping.
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2008
     
    What is the space blanket made of Jeff? Is it just mineral fibre wrapped in foil?
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2008
     
    Keith - yes, Space Blanket is fibreglass wrapped in a polymer film but the upper and lower surfaces are different. The lower face (i.e. that which should face down towards the loft floor) is what appears to be a translucent plastic film (probably polyethylene), orange in colour, and the upper face (i.e. that which should face up into the loft space) is an aluminised plastic film. It is very nice to handle as it tends to slide across the joists rather than getting snagged and sheds very few fibres. Obviously after cutting to the required length you will have exposed the fibreglass so they cannot claim it to be totally "itch free". Normally it would be quite expensive but the 2 for the price of 1 offer brought it down to about £6 - £7 per roll (the 200 mm thick material comes as a 4 metre length roll, about 37 cm wide; total area = 1.48 sq m).

    Regarding electrical cables - I think it is a general rule that cables should not be covered with any kind of insulation in case of localised overheating potentially resulting in a fire.
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2008
     
    post xmas i have been busy filling the eaves area (downwards from purlin at about 1m high to nothing at the eaves) with eco-wool (2for1) and have found it very easy to use. the nack in cutting it (i have used ordinary kitchen scissors) is rather akin to tearing telephone books i.e compress it and start on the thin edge. (i have of course left at least 50mm vent gap). it does recover quite well just be patient.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPaulT
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2008 edited
     
    Does Tony Reed work for YBS? - jusr wondering as I thought commercial interests should be declared on the forum when supporting products.

    Interesting although B&Q sell the stuff I discussed insulation with one of their sales guys at Interbuild. They said that their Knauf insulation (glass/mineral wool) now contains increasing levels of recycled glass. They also had concerns over the 'fluffability' of the plastic rolls - they were not expanding to the quoted depth - even on the display stand. There are also issues concerning sound transmission.

    Irrespective of the 'eco' manufacturing properties of such products I would not use them for the simple reason that all open cell insulation is subject to severe degredation in ventilated spaces. This being a reason why multi foil insulation has performed well when compared to mineral wool but has not adequately been compared to closed cell insulation in sealed elements...(this was an admission from an ex **** employee who set up the tests, heresay, I know as I can not, for legal reasons divulge the source).


    From an objective position we need to be very carefull of the "free lunch" offered by recycled and naturaly sourced products - they are not sustainable if they do not perform as well as the alternatives (typically closed cell insulation) and there may be better uses for the materials.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKeith Hall
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2008
     
    Yes I think he does Paul. We should all declare our interest if we are in the profession.

    Click on my name above to see my declaration of interest. You can add your own to your account details.
  15.  
    slightly off subject

    But , try puttting polystrene packaging bits and PUR board offcuts through a shreader ,loosely pack it up in black bags
    free loft insulation , rather than land fill
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2008
     
    I've tried all ways of reducing polystyrene James and every one has failed miserably. What is your shredder like/type?
  17.  
    My kids can reduce it to millions of little balls all over the carpet in no time:bigsmile:
  18.  
    Keith
    A friends got a wood chipper( tree surgeon) and he rigs it up to joinery dust extractor to suck it straight into the black bags
    • CommentAuthorSewerSide
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    Resurrecting this thread back to Eco-Wool...
    B&Q have both 150mm and 200mm on half price still (~£7.50/roll), though they dont seem to have any more 150mm, and I was told by a member of staff they are discontinuing this thickness.
    So my questions are... does anyone know if they are getting rid of all Ecowool or just the 150mm? And are there any other places to buy it?
  20.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: jamesingram</cite>slightly off subject

    But , try puttting polystrene packaging bits and PUR board offcuts through a shreader ,loosely pack it up in black bags
    free loft insulation , rather than land fill</blockquote>

    And wear a mask while your doing it! Yuk...:tongue:
  21.  
    You can still get Ecowool which is now targeted at DIY only [I Think] There is a trade version called 'non itch' http://www.buildingproducts.co.uk/product-review/8453
    • CommentAuthorSimonG
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2008
     
    I took advantage of the Eco-Wool half price offer at B&Q and have used it in my loft. I bought it based on price and the "eco" claims it made.

    Just to give some background - My home is 10 years old and it had at best 100mm of insulation between the none standard joists. My loft is full of obsticles as the house was built by a large housebuilder doing everything as cheaply as possible! I also have a number of downlighters in the ceiling which needed some sort of ventilation.

    I firstly used old mineral wool to fill between the joists and then put a further 200mm of eco wool across the joists (as recomended to stop bridging). I used expandable metal ventilation tubing for around the halogen light fittings.

    The eco wool was easy to lay because it doesnt itch like mineral wool. This was a huge advantage. I found cutting it was easy - just used my hands.

    Since fitting it my only comment would be that it hasnt risen as much as it said it would. I now have between 300-400mm of insulation in the loft except a small centre area that I have loft board on for storage. This has insulation below it however when I have money (or I find someone decent enough to give me some) I will raise the floor and put in that solid insulation board you can purchase.

    Overall I recomend it. I do have a question though - would it be worth putting another layer in or does the rule of diminishing returns kick in?
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2008
     
    diminishing returns does kick in (cant give you sums)

    i would say that if you have 300-400mm in your loft, and it is well laid, no gaps etc, your money would be better spent elsewhere.
    • CommentAuthorSimonG
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2008
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: TheDoctor</cite>diminishing returns does kick in (cant give you sums)

    i would say that if you have 300-400mm in your loft, and it is well laid, no gaps etc, your money would be better spent elsewhere.</blockquote>

    Thanks Doctor

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