Sat, 30 May 2026 11:55:44 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8301#Comment_8301 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8301#Comment_8301 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:44:33 +0100 tony
I strongly object to the name and for that matter the idea too -- to tax people for being ungreen just salves the governments conscience

Action not taxes is what is needed. What will the taxes get spent on? not on green things almost for sure.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8327#Comment_8327 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8327#Comment_8327 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:25:34 +0100 adrian hollister
I've lobbied in the past to get housing associations to be the exemplar for sustainable social housing, to set the standards to which the private firms can only look at in awe. It seems however that the housing associations are not incentivised by these things... how easy it would be for central government to fund and promote this approach. It would show immediate benefits and start showing the private housing industry where they need to be going. There is one proposal going forward in the Newbury area, but you get the feeling that the recently green washed local councilors just don't have a clue about sustainable communities.

So Gordon Brown, cut the spin on green taxes, as green they are not; and start investing now.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8500#Comment_8500 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8500#Comment_8500 Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:33:07 +0100 Chris Wardle
I've been doing some insulation this week at the in-laws and we got talking about energy costs. They use £600 worth of oil per year, perhaps 1% of their income. Prices would have to go much higher, whether through taxes or higher market prices per barrel. I doubt they would reduce consumption if the price doubled or even trebled and that would put heating beyond the means of pensioners and the lower paid.

Green taxes are a policy that can't work in the real world, and if they did, the revenues accruing to the State would fall so they are not a substitute for other taxes.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8512#Comment_8512 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8512#Comment_8512 Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:57:01 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8537#Comment_8537 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8537#Comment_8537 Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:17:18 +0000 Chris Wardle https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8679#Comment_8679 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8679#Comment_8679 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:04:01 +0000 gmac
I think we should all be working towards a carbon target that gets tougher year by year. That way, when it actually happens it will not be such a shock to the wallet ....aka Green Tax]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8695#Comment_8695 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8695#Comment_8695 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:15:28 +0000 fostertom Posted By: gmacwhat Defra are talking about in the Energy White Paper - Personal Carbon Allowanceyer what? they can't mean that - anyone explain?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8713#Comment_8713 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8713#Comment_8713 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:12:26 +0000 gmac
Meeting the Energy Challenge
A White Paper on Energy
May 2007
(DTI)

Presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry
By Command of Her Majesty
May 2007

Extract -

BOX 2.4 PERSONAL CARBON ALLOWANCES
The concept of a personal carbon allowance is one of a number of
potential long-term ideas undergoing academic research in the UK. Under
such a scheme, individuals would manage their own carbon emissions; a
national emissions cap would be set, and emissions rights (in the form of
carbon credits) would be allocated across the population as a whole.
Individuals would surrender their carbon credits upon the purchase of, for
example, electricity, gas or transport fuel. Those who need or want to emit
more than their allowance would have to buy allowances from those who
emit less. Over time, the overall emissions cap (and hence individual
allocations) could be reduced in line with international or nationally
adopted agreements.
Following the Energy Review Report, the Government commissioned an
initial scoping study from the Centre for Sustainable Energy into the
feasibility of using personal carbon allowances. Their main findings were
that:
• by having an overall cap on carbon, a personal carbon allowance could
guarantee a certain reduction in domestic carbon emissions;
• it is unlikely that such an allowance could work in isolation from other
policies;
• such a scheme might have the potential to achieve emissions savings in
a fairer way than a carbon tax; and
• there is little evidence currently available about key wider issues critical
to the success of a personal carbon allowance such as public and
political feasibility, technical feasibility, cost, and relative effectiveness.
The Government believes that the current system of taxation strikes the
right balance between protecting the environment, protecting the most
vulnerable in society and maintaining sound public finances. There remain
many high-level questions about whether a personal carbon allowance
scheme could be proportionate, effective, socially equitable and financially
viable, particularly when compared or combined with existing policies and
other options for controlling carbon emissions; whether it could be a
practical and feasible option; how such a scheme might work in practice;
and whether it would avoid placing undue burdens on individuals. The
Government is therefore undertaking a programme of work intending to
look into these issues in more detail.

Hope that clarifies it]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8716#Comment_8716 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8716#Comment_8716 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:12:46 +0000 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8740#Comment_8740 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8740#Comment_8740 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:59:51 +0000 Chris Wardle https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8745#Comment_8745 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8745#Comment_8745 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:55:58 +0000 bot de paille
rearranging the decks on the Titanic

when this is seen for the smoke screen/red herring it is, the green movement will lose it credibility and trying to make a difference enviromentaly will be set back 10 years

what is needed is an energy allowance with the associated proper funding and support for sustainable technologies]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8746#Comment_8746 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8746#Comment_8746 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:05:57 +0000 bot de paille
The answer is a balanced holistic approach that honestly addresses the issues and developes long term solutions.

green taxes are the stick, but they are a meaningless propoganda green wash if there is not the provision forl ong term reforms and the action and finacial support that this requires.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8756#Comment_8756 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8756#Comment_8756 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:39:24 +0000 Chris Wardle
It is politically unacceptable for a Chancellor to stand at the dispatch box every year and tell people their taxes are going up, even they are "green taxes", so it won't happen. Likewise if you are relying on HMG to make substantial funds available in a timely manner to fund alternative technologies you will be waiting a long time. It won't happen - there are too many competing priorities which the voters will continue to see as more urgent until it is too late to act.

The only way we will efficiently and effectively develop and implement technologies to tackle the problems of climate change and Peak Oil is to send the correct signals to the market and let the private sector make the investments and changes necessary. All business really needs to get going on this is a clear and unambiguous target and timetable and a mechanism to ensure a level playing field. They can get get on with achieving the objective in the most efficient and effective (and hence profitable) manner, which is what the private sector excels at and where the public sector always, without exception, fails. TEQs and contraction and convergence at the international level do this.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8759#Comment_8759 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8759#Comment_8759 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 22:04:12 +0000 bot de paille

The real key goal is the transition to long term, sustainable growth, not low carbon economy. Burning wood for heating releases co2,but is balanced from the co2 it took in from growth. but this runs against the zero carbon policy.

the international energy authority has just announced that we have now passed peak oil. the price of oil is about to go through the roof 200usd +]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8763#Comment_8763 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8763#Comment_8763 Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:20:09 +0000 fostertom Posted By: bot de paillethe price of oil is about to go through the roof 200usd +Hooray! now the work can really begin.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8781#Comment_8781 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=784&Focus=8781#Comment_8781 Fri, 02 Nov 2007 10:30:07 +0000 Chris Wardle
When you say "sustainable growth" Bot, are you talking about in the West or in the less developed world? I don't see much scope for growth with declining total energy supplies and I think the wealth is heading East so in my view, we are looking at tightening our belts.

I agree with you about oil prices but part of the increase will have more to do with the decline in the dollar verses other currencies (just breached a 40 year low) and against real money i.e. gold and silver. Never the less, oil prices will be heading a lot higher in whatever currency you want to measure it and production of conventional oil does seem to have peaked in 2005.]]>