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General: Firewood prices

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    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2011
     
    Firewood must be the most difficult thing to price. Such a range of quality with different species, water content, size and shape, location, weight or volume and difficulty of measuring both. Just what is 'a load'?

    Nevertheless, it would be interesting to compare people's experience with buying firewood.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2011 edited
     
    I think the varying quality is one problem facing the RHI. As far as I know it is a totally unregulated market. Some sort of minimum energy content per unit mass will have to be established in the near future or people will never know what they are buying.

    If people post up their delivered prices, quantities (preferably in kg) and geographic region I am willing to knock up a chart or two.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Water content is a big variable, making volume a better metric than mass, hence the tradition of buying by the cord - a stack of logs 4 x 4 x 8 feet. The energy content per kg of dry timber only varies by less than 5% by species. I've just taken delivery of a load 5.8 tonnes of sawn oak off-cuts. Don't know the price yet, awaiting invoice. (Yes that's the way we trade round here!)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Yes I agree that volume is a better way to know what has been delivered. Trouble is that it is very time consuming for punters to work it out. Easy to weigh a days worth and depending on how long the pile last can estimate the total there.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011 edited
     
    ST,

    the problem with weight is the wetter the wood is the more you pay for less quality. It seems it is only here that wood is sold by weight! In Norway, Switzerland and Germany I have only ever been offered wood in M3. I would suggest that after the first time you know appr. how many burns a M3 will go.

    I sell mainly birch which is always seasoned for at least 12 months for £55 a M3 collected or £10 extra for delivery with in the area.

    Jonti
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Then m^3 it is then. But purely out of academic interest, how is it measured? Trees don't seem to come in nice easy blocks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    m^3 at an assumed (random) packing density, and assuming a maximum proportion of brush and leaves...

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011 edited
     
    Italy sells also sell in weight, to be precise in quintale (100kgs) BUT here, rural mid-Italy, it is always fully seasoned wood and mainly (80-90%) oak, with the odd bit of other stuff thrown in. It is all about your relationship with your supplier and of course trust. You can get ripped off both ways (weight and volume)! Starting price is 11.50 Euros per 100kgs cut and split to 30cms, then 11 Euros cut and split to 50cms then 10.50 Euros in (very) nominal 1 m lengths (finishing as long as 180cms) and not split at all. All prices are incl delivery. However, I buy 50 cms cut but not split for 10.50 Euros (about £9.13/100 kgs). Other Brits pay a little more just a few miles away but no-one I know pays less than this.

    Paying by volume is in my view the best way the majority of the time but not for me:wink:
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Posted By: DamonHDm^3 at an assumed (random) packing density, and assuming a maximum proportion of brush and leaves...

    Rgds

    Damon


    Hi Damon,

    never seen any firewood delivered with brush or/and leaves. Normaly split and cut being packed as tightly as possible.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea Then m^3 it is then. But purely out of academic interest, how is it measured? Trees don't seem to come in nice easy blocks.

    Stere, (a m^3 of stacked firweood), devised by the French I believe as a metric equivalent to the cord. I don't think its part of the SI though. Most firewood suppliers in the UK have no idea of its existence, or a cord for that matter. They often sell by "the load" or other such arbitary measures.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    Sorry, yes, having helped with the rather upstream end of it I think of splitting and stacking as being the last stage (other than a year or two drying)!

    I wonder what the average packing density of split logs is?

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorrichy
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2011
     
    £50 a tonne, a 1 cubic m builders bag is the norm here in Ilkley. Quality varies. Kindling from the sawmills and timber yards varying at at £1-£2.50 a sack always makes me think there is potential for making a quick buck one bag at a time!
  13.  
    Posted By: richy£50 a tonne, a 1 cubic m builders bag is the norm here in Ilkley. Quality varies. Kindling from the sawmills and timber yards varying at at £1-£2.50 a sack always makes me think there is potential for making a quick buck one bag at a time!


    This is the big con. A cubic mtr bag may contain 1 tonne of wet sand but probably only 0.5 tonne of dry seasoned timber. However the normal builders bag is only 0.8x0.8x0.8 which works out at only 0.5 of a cubic mtr.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    I 've just had 24 tons delivered, (4 x forwarder loads) they cost me £720. I'm now in the process of having them sawn and split. This will probably cost me another £450, so for about £1200 plus some hard work shifting the stuff I will get maybe 3 - 4 years CH and DHW. With the stock I already have I'm OK for another 4-5 years.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    Had tratctor trailer load of mainly sweet chestnut delivered for £140.00, have cut, split and thrown into 1m cubic bins loose and got 4.5 bins worth. Maybe 300-400 kg per bin?.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    Posted By: JontiST,

    the problem with weight is the wetter the wood is the more you pay for less quality. It seems it is only here that wood is sold by weight! In Norway, Switzerland and Germany I have only ever been offered wood in M3. I would suggest that after the first time you know appr. how many burns a M3 will go.

    I sell mainly birch which is always seasoned for at least 12 months for £55 a M3 collected or £10 extra for delivery with in the area.

    Jonti


    Forgot to say I am in the Inverness region
    • CommentAuthorcrusoe
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    Chestnut dickster? Oooa arr.... Doggerel says don't burn too soon...

    Beechwood fires are bright and clear
    If the logs are kept a year
    Chestnut only good they say
    If for long it's laid away
    Make a fire of elder tree
    Death within your house will be
    But ash new or ash old
    Is fit for a Queen with a crown of gold
    Birch and Fir logs burn too fast
    Blaze up bright and do not last
    It is by the Irish said
    Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread
    Elm wood burns like churchyard mould
    Even the very flames are cold
    But ash green or ash brown
    Is fit for a Queen with a golden crown
    Poplar gives a bitter smoke
    Fills your eyes and makes you choke
    Apple wood will scent your room
    With an incense-like perfume
    Oaken logs, if dry and old
    Keep away the winters cold
    But ash wet or ash dry
    A king shall warm his slippers by.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    Cor blimey! They also say beggars can't be choosers.

    Will see how it goes. Some very wet, some not so, but always split it so surface area as large as poss in relation to volume. Have beech at moment and offcuts from sweet chestnut cladding (very dry).Beech takes maybe 4 months to dry/season from new in my bins, which are made from concrete reinforcing mesh on pallets which allows the Doggerel wind to blow straight through.

    NB You're not the bloke that writes the Times weather bit are you? Full of old sayings to suit any situation. They do say if it rains on October 17th, then the lambs will bleat all spring tha nose!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011 edited
     
    So at the moment we have:

    Jonti £55/m^3 plus £10 delivery
    Gotanewlife £91.30/tonne
    Richy £50/m^3
    Owlman £30/tonne (£68/tonne processed)
    Dickster £87.5/Tonne (estimate)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite>So at the moment we have:

    Jonti £55/m^3 plus £10 delivery
    Gotanewlife £91.30/tonne
    Richy £50/m^3
    Owlman £30/tonne (£68/tonne processed)
    Dickster £87.5/Tonne (estimate)</blockquote>

    I can add my gardener's observation today. He paid £110 for a trailer load that he reckoned was less than 1 tonne.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    So at the moment we have:

    Jonti £55/m^3 plus £10 delivery
    Gotanewlife £91.30/tonne
    Richy £50/m^3
    Owlman £30/tonne (£68/tonne processed)
    Dickster £87.5/tonne (estimate)
    JSHarris £122/tonne (estimate)
    •  
      CommentAuthorrichy
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2011
     
    No con in buying a builders bag full of logs. What you see is what you get! My guy cuts them to any size you specify so I asked for 17 1/4 inches!
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    But your wife asked for 18"!:shocked:
    • CommentAuthordaysleeper
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011 edited
     
    Just paid £100 for a nominal 1.3m^3 of dry hardwood. Getting a load off a different supplier end of this week for a comparison. That is £100 a load but can't (won't) define a load... Last year paid someone about £80 for a Toyota Hi-lux load of sopping wet stuff, not going back to him!
    ... this year with a moisture meter and a lot more storage space I'm much better organised. Though ideally I'd want to do what owlman is doing...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    So at the moment we have: (can we agree what a m^3 weighs within decent bounds)

    Jonti £55/m^3 plus £10 delivery
    Gotanewlife £91.30/tonne
    Richy £50/m^3
    Owlman £30/tonne (£68/tonne processed)
    Dickster £87.5/tonne (estimate)
    JSHarris £122/tonne (estimate)
    Daysleeper £76.92/m^3
    • CommentAuthorbillt
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    I paid £41/m^3 (for 18 m^3) at the beginning of September; their prices have since gone up to £54/m^3.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    So at the moment we have: (can we agree what a m^3 weighs within decent bounds)

    Jonti £55/m^3 plus £10 delivery
    Gotanewlife £91.30/tonne
    Richy £50/m^3
    Owlman £30/tonne (£68/tonne processed)
    Dickster £87.5/tonne (estimate)
    JSHarris £122/tonne (estimate)
    Daysleeper £76.92/m^3
    Billt £41/m^3 (September)
    Billt £54/m^3 (October)
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    I'll try and create a volume from my 24 ton log pile.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    'The Devil makes work for idle hand' :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2011
     
    mutter mutter:devil:

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