Thu, 25 Jun 2026 09:17:34 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119870#Comment_119870 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119870#Comment_119870 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:21:12 +0100 SteveZ
Does anyone have in-depth knowledge of the process of slow and/or fast pyrolysis? It seems to be a good technique of dealing with most of the organic rubbish which finds its way into landfill or the incinerator.

Before the flood of comments about reduce, reuse and recycle come in, I would like to say that I agree that is the best way but, in the real world, we need a better way to dispose of the rubbish in the near future.

In pyrolysis, the organic rubbish is ground small and dried to remove most of the water content, then is heated in an oxygen deprived atmosphere. This produces gas, oil and a solid char. The proportion of each can be adjusted by changing the conditions and is also dependent on the raw material. The gas produced can be used to heat the process plant in a closed loop and any excess modified separately into liquid fuel. The oil can be used as is or refined into diesel fuel. As the exhaust gases are recirculated into the plant there are no or very few emissions from the plant. The char is, according to the trial results, a very effective slow release fertiliser and soil improver.

I don't think pyrolysis plants are available off the shelf yet and the technique is not fully sorted, but it seems to offer such possibilities that I am surprised (or suspicious) that there is not more publicity about it.

if it all sounds too good to be true, then maybe we could dig a little deeper and see if this is one which is actually as good as it sounds]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119894#Comment_119894 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119894#Comment_119894 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:06:11 +0100 renewablejohn Posted By: SteveZRecently the incinerator proposed for Cornwall has had its planning permission revoked, so we can look forward to another round of legal battles and more wasted money, wasted unless you are in the legal profession of course!

Does anyone have in-depth knowledge of the process of slow and/or fast pyrolysis? It seems to be a good technique of dealing with most of the organic rubbish which finds its way into landfill or the incinerator.

Before the flood of comments about reduce, reuse and recycle come in, I would like to say that I agree that is the best way but, in the real world, we need a better way to dispose of the rubbish in the near future.

In pyrolysis, the organic rubbish is ground small and dried to remove most of the water content, then is heated in an oxygen deprived atmosphere. This produces gas, oil and a solid char. The proportion of each can be adjusted by changing the conditions and is also dependent on the raw material. The gas produced can be used to heat the process plant in a closed loop and any excess modified separately into liquid fuel. The oil can be used as is or refined into diesel fuel. As the exhaust gases are recirculated into the plant there are no or very few emissions from the plant. The char is, according to the trial results, a very effective slow release fertiliser and soil improver.

I don't think pyrolysis plants are available off the shelf yet and the technique is not fully sorted, but it seems to offer such possibilities that I am surprised (or suspicious) that there is not more publicity about it.

if it all sounds too good to be true, then maybe we could dig a little deeper and see if this is one which is actually as good as it sounds

Snake oil until proven otherwise.

A lot of claims on the internet of turning plastics into fuel oil by simple pyrolysis but when people come to invest they cannot purchase the technology. All very suspicious.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119896#Comment_119896 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119896#Comment_119896 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:12:41 +0100 Joiner
http://www.idea.gov.uk/idk/aio/1108696

"The first commercial pyrolysis, gasification and high temperature oxidation company in the world. The company was founded in 1992 and as early as October 2001 was granted the Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control authorisation (IPPC). The annual processing volumes are 8 thousand tons of waste mainly from medical origin."]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119911#Comment_119911 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119911#Comment_119911 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:05:07 +0100 renewablejohn Posted By: JoinerActually, it's been going fo a while...

http://www.idea.gov.uk/idk/aio/1108696" rel="nofollow" >http://www.idea.gov.uk/idk/aio/1108696

"The first commercial pyrolysis, gasification and high temperature oxidation company in the world. The company was founded in 1992 and as early as October 2001 was granted the Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control authorisation (IPPC). The annual processing volumes are 8 thousand tons of waste mainly from medical origin."

Joiner

No thats a standard tried and tested destructive pyrolysis plant that just burns the gas given off in a conventional thermal power plant. What Stevez is on about is condensing that gas fraction to produce a diesel oil substitute which can then fuel a conventional diesel engine. On the web there is a couple of firms claiming to do it but I am still not convinced.
The technology your referring to is the standard proposed for MSW plants and is probably the technology rejected for the plant in Cornwall. I will imagine Brian will be along shortly to put you in the full picture.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119912#Comment_119912 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119912#Comment_119912 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:13:11 +0100 SteamyTea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119932#Comment_119932 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119932#Comment_119932 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:28:31 +0100 Joiner ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119937#Comment_119937 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119937#Comment_119937 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:41:22 +0100 fostertom a) Australian automatic mining/waste sorting technology evolves further
b) cost and unreliable supply of virgin petrochemical feedstock makes it economic
to 'quarry' the stockpiles.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119971#Comment_119971 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=119971#Comment_119971 Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:12:57 +0100 Brianwilson Apart from health concerns from emissions impact fundamental problems, poor energy conversion, oil very low ph(2.2) and high s.g.(1.1) plus immiscible. The chosen location on a Scottish Island added to concerns, proposal to transport oil by tanker on ferry where any spillage would sink to bottom of bilges and corrode hull. Charcoal very low density with high transport impact. The Energy Minister thought oil could provide transport fuel but sadly would require any component coming into contact to be corrosion resistant and capable of handling high solids content which again pointed to potential of serious fine particle pollution in emissions. A further problem exposure to fumes from oil reported to be linked to cataracts.
Reference use of pyrolosis for waste to energy it would appear to present fundamental health concerns when compared with alternatives such as AD with reported capability to utilise all biodegradable material which we are aware currently forms bulk of waste production. The irony is gas capture from landfill currently detailed as most economical form of energy from waste/]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=120068#Comment_120068 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=120068#Comment_120068 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:28:54 +0100 SteveZ
FT I will try to regard the landfill site as a future goldmine, and it is a valid point, if the holes in the ground were available. Unfortunately, Cornwall is almost out of landfill sites and has been taking some from Devon, so I guess Devon must be in a similar pickle.

That source of reliable info, Wikipedia, has an article on the subject of pyrolysis - have a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass_gasification

Oxford Catalysts Group have made a small-scale ( I think it is a 60cm cube!) micro-channel reactor for conversion of oilfield flare gas to liquid fuel, which is worth a look, as the technique should also work on clean bio-gas]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=120073#Comment_120073 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=120073#Comment_120073 Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:53:26 +0100 fostertom Posted By: SteveZlandfill site as a future goldmine, and it is a valid point, if the holes in the ground were availablePrelim sorting shd be done automatically, so only future-valuable non-degrading hydrocarbons were saved, and compressed before stacking neatly. The compostable cellulose shd by all means be efficiently burnt (or composted) and the metals, glass etc recycled. This is basic, present-day-feasible stuff and it's outrageous that it's not done as a matter of course already, instead of lazily trying to dispose of the lot. Of course it's all simpler and cheaper if the sorting is substantially done at household level (Teignbridge Council, Devon now up to 70% recycled) but if not, then can be done from unsorted waste, today.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=144303#Comment_144303 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7974&Focus=144303#Comment_144303 Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:55:59 +0100 SteveZ
This might be a useful data set I found when checking out a high temperature induction heated pyrolysis plant by Pyromex - if there is a better place to stick it, I'm sure someone will suggest one

Note the values for paraffin (heating oil) and old car tyres especially

Calorific Values of
Secondary Energy Materials kcal/kg (approx.) kJ/kg (approx.) kW/kg (approx.)
Bamboo 3'800 15'900 4.4
Brown coal 4'500 18'900 5.2
Cacao shrub 3'300 13'800 3.8
Cardboard 3'800 16'900 4.4
Cardboard corrugated 3'910 16'400 4.5
Car tires 8'300 34'800 9.6
China grass 4'030 16'900 4.6
Citrus peels 4’500 18'900 5.2
Coconut shell 3'800 15'900 4.4
Coffee bean shells 6'000 25'100 6.8
Compost 4'200 17'600 4.8
Cork 6'300 26'400 7.3
Corn 4'400 18'400 5.1
Cotton seeds 3'300 13'800 3.8
Hay 3'200 13'400 3.7
Hospital waste 6'780 28'500 7.8
Household waste presorted 4'500 18'900 5.2
Leather 4'020 16'800 4.6
Manure (dried) 3'760 15'900 4.4
Neoprene 7'100 29'700 8.2
Newspaper 3’910 16'400 4.5
Nylon 7'570 31'700 8.8
Oil sludge 8'800 36'800 10.2
Paper 4'400 18'400 5.1
Paper adhesive coated 4'200 17'600 4.8
Paper coated 6'390 26'800 7.4
Paper sludge 3'910 16'400 4.5
Tar paper 6'390 26'800 7.4
Paraffin 10'340 43'300 12.1
Plywood 4'500 18'900 5.2
Polyethan foam 9'770 40'900 11.3
Polyethylene 10'990 46'100 12.7
Polypropylene 11'030 46'200 12.8
Polystyrol carbon reinforced 10'840 45'400 12.6
Polystyrol EPS 9'800 41'100 11.3
Rice pods 2'900 12'100 3.3
Rubber 5'600 23'400 6.5
Sewage sludge (dried) 3'300 13'800 3.8
Sunflower residue 4'200 17'600 4.8
Straw 4'000 17'200 4.6
Tar acid 5'600 23'400 6.5
Tar and refinery residues 9'200 38'500 10.7
Textiles 4'000 16'700 4.6
Tobacco powder 3'000 12'600 3.4
Treated wood 4'500 18'900 5.2
Untreated wood 4'200 17'600 4.8]]>