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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    I have some flats fitted out with 50W halogen bulbs all through (ceiling fittings with 3 bulbs to each fitting). They are GU10 bulbs. Will I get enough light if I swap these for their LED equivalents?

    I've just been pricing them up and one site I looked at said they weren't suitable for main lighting in a room. Aside from the energy saving angle, the flats have 11ft ceilings and the tenants will need steps to change the bulbs. As LEDs are supposed to last much longer I thought I might not bother providing steps and just change the bulbs myself between lets.

    Would appreciate some advice if anyone has any experience of using LED lighting.
    •  
      CommentAuthorOlly
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2007
     
    Everything that I've heard seems to suggest that you will get significantly less light output from LED versions of Halogen down-lighters. There are also issues regarding the quality of light, as they tend to give out a different colour/temperature light which many people don't like.

    I think down-lighters (LED or Halogen) have their place, but they do offer a rather harsh unflattering light coming from above. I think they are often well suited to kitchens and bathrooms, but I find them a bit odd in bedrooms and lounges. Although that does come down to personal preference. A friend of mine recently had a house built and has them installed in every single room, I forget the number, but it was well in excess of 100. 5kW+ of lighting sounds a bit excessive to me!!

    You can get miniature CFLs downlighters. I recall seeing them in the Kingspan "Lighthouse" based on the BRE "Inovation Park". However it was during the day, so I have no idea how good they are.
    • CommentAuthormook
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2007
     
    In my experience LED lights are not useable as a main source of light. The beam is very narrow, and the output is just not good enough. Also the light is very blue, clinical. They would be OK for accent lighting only. I use Megaman GU10 CFLs 11W, these are longer than a regular GU10, so check they fit into your fittings but they should last 15000 hrs. The light output is still not the same as a halogen ... more white than yellow, and less of a spotlight effect, they also don't 'throw' the light as well. 11W is supposed to be eqivalent to a 50W halogen, but in fact the light source isn't as bright... but for me worth it for the energy savings. Not cheap at £9 a pop, but better to pay for decent bulbs than cheap ones. B&Q had an offer on energy saving recessed light which I bought for the fittings but replaced the bulbs as they were hopeless.

    http://www.gogreenlights.co.uk/lightbulbs/halogen_spot_LED.html (nothing to do with me but good concise info on the options)

    I spoke with a couple of folk while I was researching which bulb to use and there seemed to be some rumblings of a decent LED bulb available soonish, which I think Phillips are developing, but it won't be cheap. Might be worth waiting for?
  2.  
    in my experience the heat saving aspect of LED can't be undersold. I've been working though my house slowly replacing my GU10's etc. with LED's. YES the light given off is different ... and it isn't quite a bright. But remember 90% of the energy of traditional bulbs is converted into heat. The other aspect of this HEAT is the SERIOUS FIRE RISK ... from first hand experience it is a real shock when you see that you've almost had a house fire.

    traditional/halogen bulbs need to be treated with great care ... LED's are a far safer and longer lasting product. YOu just need to buy a couple or get them on test and see how things are.:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2007
     
    Like mook I have been swapping mine for the megaman gu10 compact fluorescents and I have them very good although they do take a little while to warm up.
    I have tried LED's but the light output is inadequate for most situations.
    • CommentAuthorsimonm
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2007
     
    LEDs yes I would agree, the light output just isn't great enough yet, unless you put lots of them in. What I have found them useful for is nightlights. I got a job lot of leds and installed them round the house on a timer so they come on at night, in particular the hallway where all I need is the equivalent of moonlight. I can walk around and the kids don't get spooked at having a pitch black house, and of course there is no need to switch on ordinary lighting. I'm thinking of putting PIRs for the LEDs, but it might be that the PIR uses as much or more than the LED!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2007
     
    LEDs are for the future...

    Raw power: A 50W halogen downlight produces around 800-950 Lumens. Typical LED GU10 bulbs produce around 150 to 350 L. Specialist LED die have been produced that generate as much light as a 50W halogen but typically they need special heatsinks and could not easily be made in GU10 format. LEDs do not like to run hot and if allowed to run hot they have a short life. This appears to limit the amount of light that an LED can produce at the moment. I believe the really bright LEDs are currently limited to custom lighting applications such as car headlamps where suitable heatsinks can be provided - but even then I think just the dipped beam is LED, typically the raised/full beam lamp is a conventional bulb.

    Efficiency: The Building Regs define a Low Energy lamp as one that produces more than 40 lumens of light per watt of electrical power. Most flourescent lights beat that but a few of the smaller CFL bulbs are actually marginal. It's unlikely any LED bulb available on the high street achieves 40 L/W but prototype LEDs have achieved at least 113 L/W so there is plenty of potential for the future.

    LEDs are being improved but IMHO they aren't quite there yet for general purpose lighting. Give it a few years though and they should be great.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 14th 2007 edited
     
    I had a look at a 5w led 12v downlight bulb the other day
    ,looked good , much better than the GU10 blueish stuff

    it had a single light source , yellowish surrounded by a reflector
    fits into standard downlights
    MR-16 operating life 35000hrs
    colour temperature 2900K
    not cheap though , about £20 each

    http://www.smaclite.co.uk/ new in so not on there site

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorwaveydavey
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2007
     
    LED technology is in its infancy, i wouldnt bother with these until they get a little more developed. You do have to spend alot of money on led's to get a high performance.

    A cheaper alternative........swap all your 50watt lamps for either 35watt or even 20watt GU10's. Cheaper and cooler to run and from my experience the 35's are almost as bright as 50's and 20's are easily acceptable. This is something i have done for some of my customers and they have been very happy.

    It might be cheaper for you to replace your fittings for a 18 or 28watt 2D or 4D fitting. A fitting can be bought for as little as £20.

    Hope this helps.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2007
     
    LED lighting is coming but not here yet. Most interesting announcement this year was this one.....

    http://www.physorg.com/news93198212.html

    Powerful Little Light: LED With 1,000 Lumens

    "Osram has developed a small light-emitting diode spotlight that achieves an output of more than 1,000 lumens for the first time. That’s brighter than a 50-watt halogen lamp, thereby making the device suitable for a broad range of general lighting applications. The Ostar Lighting LED, which will be launched on the market this summer, can provide sufficient light for a desk from a height of two meters, for example. Its small size also enables the creation of completely new lamp shapes. Source: Siemens" Article continues..

    Although no heat is emitted along with the light a lot of heat is generated in the LED. Article doesn't say what sort of heat sink is required to stop the LED self destructing. I suspect the heatsink won't allow a GU10 form factor bulb to be constructed. Important to understand that it doesn't generate more heat than a 50 W halogen - it's just that it's more sensitive to that heat.
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