Green Building Forum - Frustration re. lighting requirements.... Fri, 28 Aug 2026 01:32:33 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121310#Comment_121310 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121310#Comment_121310 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:44:40 +0000 Carol hunter
Secondly, what constitutes a low energy only fitting

Thirdly, which bulb types and fittings are deemed low energy. (I experience significant eyestrain/headaches with most fluorescent lights...)

It's fascinating that in all my traipsing around light shops, electrical retailers/wholesalers, there is either complete ignorance of the latest requirements such thht there are no alternatives in the shop to old style battens or partial truths...

Any tips as to good places to by the lampholders only would be v. helpful.

Thanks,
Carol]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121315#Comment_121315 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121315#Comment_121315 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:35:10 +0000 SteamyTea http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partl/approved#ApprovedDocumentL1A:ConservationoffuelandpowerNewdwellings2010edition]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121319#Comment_121319 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121319#Comment_121319 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:07:50 +0000 RobinB
We certainly didn't need the special lampholders in our new build house which was signed off last November (although our electricians had insisted we did and had installed a few before we got clarity from Building Control).

RobinB]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121325#Comment_121325 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121325#Comment_121325 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:33:10 +0000 CWatters
Part L para 4.13 says that lighting is now tradable with heating. However it also says the minimium reasonable amount of low energy lighting is described in this document..

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/domestic_building_compliance_guide_2010.pdf

See Section 12 page 122 and the table on page 123. That says for internal lighting..


"a) In the areas affected by thebuilding work, provide low energy light fittings (fixed lights or lighting units) that number not less than three per four of all the light fittings in the main dwelling spaces (excluding infrequently accessed spaces used for storage, such as cupboards and wardrobes.

b) Low energy light fittings should have lamps with a luminous efficacy greater than 45 lamp lumens per circuit watt and a total output greater than 400 lumens.

c) Light fittings whose supplied power is less than 5 curcuit watts are excluded from the overall count of the total number of fittings.


The table also says that standard fittings with Low Energy bulbs _do_ count as low energy. No longer any need for special fittings.

However it appears that the 4-5W 300-400 Lumen LED downlights that I've been playing with wouldn't count towards the "three out of four" because they DONT BURN ENOUGH POWER!!!]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121335#Comment_121335 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121335#Comment_121335 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:17:20 +0000 djh Posted By: CWattersHowever it appears that the 4-5W 300-400 Lumen LED downlights that I've been playing with wouldn't count towards the "three out of four" because they DONT BURN ENOUGH POWER!!!
Yes, that's a really annoying piece of government incompetence, isn't it?]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121336#Comment_121336 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121336#Comment_121336 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:29:23 +0000 djh
Posted By: Carol hunterPlease would someone clarify the current requirements for new build vis a vis the percentage of low energy only fittings required.

3 out of 4 (75%), with some exclusions allowed for storage areas.

Secondly, what constitutes a low energy only fitting

Not relevant any longer, I think. But the idea was, any fitting that could only take low-energy bulbs - so look at what bulbs are available for the fitting.

Thirdly, which bulb types and fittings are deemed low energy. (I experience significant eyestrain/headaches with most fluorescent lights...)

Basically, most fluorescents and LEDs, limited by the "luminous efficacy greater than 45 lamp lumens per circuit watt and a total output greater than 400 lumens" and > 5 W.

I believe some small flat circular CFL are excluded (GX35?) since not all of them are > 45 lm/W and as cwatters points out, small LEDs are excluded by the 5 W rule.

IMHO, the trick with fluorescents is to use modern ones (i.e. high-frequency electronic ballasts and triphosphor coatings), to use enough of them to make it bright, and buy quality brands. I think the same goes for LEDs, though the phosphors may be more specialized.
.]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121337#Comment_121337 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121337#Comment_121337 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:29:44 +0000 DarylP
If you change them afterwards, it's your choice.

See the Domestic Building Compliance Guide 2010.

Cheers


:smile:]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121447#Comment_121447 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121447#Comment_121447 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:57:04 +0000 davidfreeborough
David]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121470#Comment_121470 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121470#Comment_121470 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:38:25 +0000 DarylP
Ene1 and Ene2 are driven by the DER/TER SAP2009, the only other lighting criterion is external lighting.

So CfSH doesn't really 'see' LE internal lighting outlets, dedicated or otherwise....

Cheers...
:smile:]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121485#Comment_121485 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121485#Comment_121485 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:46:53 +0000 gustyturbine Gusty.]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121510#Comment_121510 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121510#Comment_121510 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:47:56 +0000 Phil.Chaddah-Duke Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121515#Comment_121515 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121515#Comment_121515 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:52:06 +0000 DarylP
The Regs. only effect fixed outlets, if they are floor standing then I don't think they come under Part L? ...these are portable by their nature?

Cheers...]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121542#Comment_121542 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121542#Comment_121542 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:50:19 +0000 davidfreeborough Posted By: DarylPEne1 and Ene2 are driven by the DER/TER SAP2009, the only other lighting criterion is external lighting.

So CfSH doesn't really 'see' LE internal lighting outlets, dedicated or otherwise....Makes sense, but the SAP 2009 manual states:

"12.8 Electricity for lighting
The electricity used for lighting is calculated according to the procedure in Appendix L. The calculation
allows for low-energy lighting provided by fixed outlets (both dedicated fittings and compact fluorescent
lamps) on the basis of the proportion of the fixed outlets that have low-energy fittings."

The part in brackets implies that both dedicated fittings and CFLs in non-dedicated fitting will be taken into account. While the last word in the paragraph implies, but does not explicitly state, that only dedicated low energy fittings will be taken into account.

David]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121561#Comment_121561 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121561#Comment_121561 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:26:00 +0000 DarylP
Yes, the requirement for dedicated outlets has been removed... However CfSH doesn't care if you have 100% LE or 0% internally. Ene1 is driven by the DER/TER, which does cover LE lighting, dedicated ot otherwise.

So you can just put in the cheapo bayonet CFLs free from the Electricity Suppliers if you wish.

Cheers.. :smile:]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121580#Comment_121580 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121580#Comment_121580 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:14:46 +0000 jamesingram

CFsL in side/table lamps with shades improve greatly the light quality.

standard ES/BC fine for current regs with cfls and LED ,

one pendant per room and plenty of sockets for plug in lamps is the simple cost effective set up

Downlight if you have to have them , CFL /LED plenty to choose from]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121591#Comment_121591 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121591#Comment_121591 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:18:54 +0000 davidfreeborough Posted By: jamesingramdont worry about confusing regs. just fit CFLs or LED through out and be an over achieverThat's my plan, but I didn't want to install non-dedicated fittings just to be told that they didn't comply!

David]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121602#Comment_121602 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121602#Comment_121602 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:57:02 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
When I wired my place I put in sockets for lamps but I wired these to a light switch next to the pendant light switch. This means when you exit the room you can turn off all the lamps in one go - much easier than going around and switching individual lamps, the ease also ensures that lamps do not get left on. ( The lamp sockets are different to the power sockets to avoid confusion)
Peter]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121604#Comment_121604 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121604#Comment_121604 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:05:37 +0000 RobinB Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryWhen I wired my place I put in sockets for lamps but I wired these to a light switch next to the pendant light switch. This means when you exit the room you can turn off all the lamps in one go - much easier than going around and switching individual lamps, the ease also ensures that lamps do not get left on. ( The lamp sockets are different to the power sockets to avoid confusion)
Peter

We did the same in our sitting room. With a 2 gang switch - each switch linked to a different group of 2-pin 3amp sockets. Therefore we needed matching plugs on each lamp. Sounds complicated but works simply and effectively.

We didn't really need the ceiling lights at all.]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121640#Comment_121640 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121640#Comment_121640 Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:33:29 +0000 Sigaldry
NB Note lamps not light fittings.

3 out of 4 (75%) is the minimum requirement according to Table 40 of the DBSCG and supplemental guidance states that these can either be dedicated fittings or standard fittings supplied with low energy lamps.

That supplementary guidance alsoadvises that GLS tungsten filament or tungsten halogen lamps would not meet the standard.

SAP 2009 now allows lighting as fully tradable to reduce the Dwelling Emission Rate, so there is a definate advantage to going to 100% LEL.

CfSH (2010) version dumped the internal Low Energy Lighting credits (although it's present in the previous version of the Code if a dwelling were being built still in accordance with older regulations and version of the code).

However a dwelling built to earlier regulations gains no benefit to DER over 30% LEL, although it does improve the actual SAP and EI ratings slightly.]]> Frustration re. lighting requirements.... https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121694#Comment_121694 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8038&Focus=121694#Comment_121694 Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:52:04 +0000 DarylP
If you are looking to comply with 2010 Building Regs, then don't worry about the fittings, it is the bulbs that count now....

Remember, it is 'fixed' fittings that are relevant.

Cheers :smile:]]>