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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    I would like to ask all green builders what they think is the most sustainable/greenest/low carbon/environmental roofing solution for the 21st century ?. Slates/shingles from abroad are out, is there enough land to grow thatch in the uk for us all ? would local clay pan tiles be the answer?

    Adobe/clay/rammed earth and straw bales are good for walls.

    Whats your solution and why.

    tom
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    Have you thought about about a living green roof? As long as your structure can support the weight there are lots of benefits e.g plants absorb Co2, less rainwater run off, encourages wildlife, excellent insulation and is relatively inexpensive. Also wouldn't our towns and cities look so much better with more of these roofs. More info at:

    http://www.livingroofs.org/
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    Thatch --- lots of benefits, green, local materials, recyclable, great insulation etc

    Second hand slates or tiles
    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007 edited
     
    Stating that Adobe/clay/rammed earth and straw bales are good for walls as part of the question may attract only those that believe it to this thread.

    Roofing is one of the critical components of a building as it is subject to the full force of the weather. Ideally roofing would be exceptionally long lasting, weatherproof with high durability features, of low embodied impact relative to that durability, able to accomodate increasing layers of insulation over time and possibly able to act as a temporary store for surface run-off (as above). In an absolute ideal world, the roofing would also be independent from the internal structure so as to allow under-cover retro and re-fitting.

    Anything else I've missed?
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007 edited
     
    The south facing half needs to be a solar panel. Either solar thermal to heat water or pv, but if it actually forms the weather tight layer there is a clear saving to be made. Much better than just bolting panels on top as an afterthought.

    As for the less sunny side, something that is made of good stuff and lasts a long time is called for. Here's an example of a building with a roof that fits the bill. The rafters are oak, dendro-dated to 1390, and all still perfectly sound. Some of the contemporaneous tiles needed replacing but 600 years is the sort of lifetime that excuses the energy used in firing the tiles. http://www.andersonandglenn.com/architecture5.htm
  1.  
    I'd of thought second hand slates/tiles concrete or clay

    they work well , there easy to get hold of, there commonly used so the supply and fit rates are cheap

    since there second hand you could argue the only energy involved is in the reclaimation and transport to the new site

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    Stuart b
    I like the idea but whats the water proof membrane ? I don 't think we should consider petrochemicals (even BP state that peak oil has been reached, check their web !)

    Biff
    Have you got/can you get any data on the clay tiles ? earthen ware/stone ware, glazed/unglazed ? must be fairly high fired I would have thought, as the pan tiles around here are lucky to last 100 years.

    James
    I doubt that there's enough second hand to cope with the planned new build, unless we all start sharing houses again, IE whole families gran-grand-kids !.
  2.  
    Dunno, Tom.
    The pantiles on my roof must be a couple of centuries old.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    The steeper the pitch the longer they last. Same with thatch.
  3.  
    howdytom
    your right, I was thinking small scale, I doubt there enough secondhand for the 3 million new homes they mentioned in the press
    but if the house market stays the same, us plebs may well end up sharing again.
  4.  
    What about Onduline? Cheap, easy to fix and made from bitumen impregnated wood fibres. In most countries it would be quite normal to have housing clad in corrugated materials.
  5.  
    How about (aluminium) printing plates, A 1 size, between slate lath bays, done like a standing-seam copper roof? Our BC dept suggested, in a pre-app discussion, that they would accept them, on an experimental basis and knowing that we would continue to use the bldg (i.e. we were not selling it on) and therefore had a vested interest in dealing with the problem if, for example, the local acidity put paid to c 0.25 mm alu! Sadly the only issue is that we currently cannot afford to build the building!

    Nick

    P.S. This is more an answer to 'what's a possible clever use for a discarded item?' than 'what's the MOST sustainable roof covering?', but it might engender some debate.
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    Hi chris.
    Onduline, first I've heard of it, just did a quick search, it sounds promising, do you know if you can get it as pre-insulated panels. Is it a fire hazard ?.
    Tom
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2007
     
    OK for sheds and it is not fire resistant. corrugated tar impregnated cardboard?
    • CommentAuthorrichardt
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2007
     
    I only know one substantial inhabited building roofed in Onduline. AFAIK they're happy with it after 6-odd years. See 1st pic in link.

    http://www.haybergill.co.uk/aboutus.htm

    Personally I prefer profiled steel.
  6.  
    I only know what is on the website Tom, no personal experience of it. I just like things that are cheap and accessible to a DIYer. If you told me I had to go and slate a roof I'd be struggling (and would have to pay the professionals), but fixing a few sheets of bitumen impregnated cardboard I recon I could handle.

    Cost is an important factor in sustainability that, I think, is often overlooked. Saddling yourself with a massive mortgage to pay for reclaimed slate, green oak frames, GSHPs etc, ties you into a conventional lifestyle of working all the hours to pay the bills. Living cheaply breaks that link. I'm trying to head in that direction so always on the lookout for ways to save money on materials, and do the work myself, but still do things the right way.
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2007
     
    I agree Chris,
    I've been given some industrial panels from a cold store, they are 6m x 1m x 100mm thick.
    outer sheets are plastic coated steel with either rock-wool or polystyrene bonded infill. you can clear span 5m and jump on them with no deformation !.
    I was thinking they would make a fantastic airtight roof, maybe counter battened and second hand pan tiled (for looks). warmcel between purlings and plaster board underneath.
    Where would the dew point be ? If it is inside the composite sheet can water condense ?

    Not the solution for the masses... still hoping someone will suggest that

    tom
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2007
     
    We have all read the hemcrete threads, does anyone think you could use hemp laid as thatch them hemcrete on top for a roof ?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2007
     
    Might work but inadvisable as small gaps and cracks (thermally formed or from small movements) would inevitably let in water and make the hemp wet.

    This would then lead to disastrous consequences.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2007
     
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2007
     
    thanks for the link biff
    tom
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    Reading a book last night about green roofs....
    Apparently in Scandinavia they used wooden planks on the roof covered with overlapped birch bark (water barrier), then twigs (for drainage) and sedum on top
    sounds as green as can be to me. problem being 20 year life span of birch + finding enough birch bark
    tom
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