Wed, 23 Sep 2026 17:39:14 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127366#Comment_127366 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127366#Comment_127366 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:55:59 +0000 Hikersong
Today I received the full spec sheet (dated December 2nd which was when we signed) along with a letter (dated December 16th) telling us about the full pre-fix survey soon to be carried out. However, the first thing that struck me was the mention of a 150 litre cylinder (Gledhill single Coil, unvented). This was to be solar heated by "1xKloben 12 Tube CPC collector". Looking on the Kloben site this is 2.16 square metre of panelling.

We are getting a solar cylinder rather than a thermal store, and in our discussion with the salesman we had talked about them providing a 250 litre size cylinder which he thought would be adequate for the DHW needs as family of 2 adults and up to 7 children (we are foster carers). We discussed a future use of 1 bathroom and 3 shower rooms. However, we seem to have been downsized.

Firstly, any comments on the sizing appreciated, and how to deal with a company that might be trying to fob us off with something smaller than my needs. I realise this is a wee bit after the horse has bolted scenario, but thank for any input.

I think I might put up the full spec in a while, just for comment, but that is my main concern.

A with-holding of "what a plonker" comments would be much appreciated.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127370#Comment_127370 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127370#Comment_127370 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:02:40 +0000 dimengineer So, no, 150l/12 tubes - totally inadequate for what you need

Tim]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127371#Comment_127371 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127371#Comment_127371 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:03:51 +0000 dimengineer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127373#Comment_127373 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127373#Comment_127373 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:20:56 +0000 Davipon Post the spec so it can be checked out!
Regards]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127381#Comment_127381 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127381#Comment_127381 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:35:23 +0000 Hikersong
Thermal System Components:

1xKloben Sky 12 CPC Collector
1x150 single Coil Gledhill Solar Unvented Cylinder
1xHeat Transfer Fluid
1xSolar Control Pump Station
!x18 ltr Solar Expansion Vessel
1x Solar Controller Display Unit with 3 Probes/Sensors
1x Comi-Sol Valve
1x Mixer valve
1x Stainless Steel Solar flex pipe
1x copper pipe
1x insulation and fittings
1x Roof Mounting Kit, Sealant and Foam
1x Copper Pipe, Fittings and insulation required
1x Electrical fittings required
1x Installation of 3amp Spur

PV System Components:

16 x 240 Scheuten Multisol Gold PV Panel
1x Power One 3.6 DC to AC Inverter
!x Solar Generation Meter
1x Bespoke Roof Mounting Kit
1x Cabling Requirements]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127419#Comment_127419 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127419#Comment_127419 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:13:11 +0000 Mike (Up North)
Make sure you and the supplier know the difference between a DHW cylinder and a thermal store its nit the same at all. Gledhill (didn’t think they were still trading) will understand the difference as they have been involved in small DHW size thermal stores. For a long time, the supplier might under stand but the salesman probably won’t (a mere technical detail)
A single coil UV cylinder would have immersion heaters either connected to day or off peak electric. So a single coil (or no coil cylinder) produces hot water by electric. So it looks as if they are specifying a stand alone solar + elec system rather than a twin coil (boiler coil + solar coil). If you’ve no mention of twin coil then there is no integration with existing systems. It looks like they have specified a standalone system.

Cheers, Mike up North]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127431#Comment_127431 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127431#Comment_127431 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:08:27 +0000 dimengineer Another question - whats a Comi-Sol valve? and why the mixer valve? What is that doing?

All in all I think you've been sold a pup..... On a fundamental basis your tank is not big enough for solar application, for house like wht you've. (Curiously enough, I have 1 bath & 3 x showers, so feel tht I can comment well on your requirements).
Something worth remembering is that Solar is a "One hit" system - you collect the energy you collect in the day, and use it. The tank needs to be big enough to hold enough water to cope with your 24 hour use, and the panels need to be big enough to reheat it the next day.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127433#Comment_127433 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127433#Comment_127433 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:12:28 +0000 dimengineer
Tanks still not big enough, and neither is the panel]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127436#Comment_127436 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127436#Comment_127436 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:21:01 +0000 Mike (Up North)
Yes well spotted a pre heat system]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127485#Comment_127485 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127485#Comment_127485 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:48:37 +0000 Hikersong
I'm going to contact the supplier with my concerns now and see what they have to say. Thanks a lot for the input. I'll be back.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127494#Comment_127494 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127494#Comment_127494 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:36:57 +0000 Nick Parsons
"I'm going to contact the supplier with my concerns now and see what they have to say."

The 14 day cooling-off period, if it applied anyway (and I am aware Scottish law is different in many cases) will have gone, but if offered, the chance to step back and decide whether to go ahead with revised, correct, spec or get your money back would be good.

How does the price compare with others of which you are aware? (That's for your own comparison - I'm not asking you to share that here).

Good luck.

Nick]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127504#Comment_127504 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127504#Comment_127504 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 15:06:13 +0000 Hikersong https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127521#Comment_127521 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127521#Comment_127521 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:14:51 +0000 dimengineer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127527#Comment_127527 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127527#Comment_127527 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:11:25 +0000 Hikersong
Watch this space. My fears are allayed up to a point, though I'm still a little confused why a full spec sheet was sent if sizing decisions had yet to be made and I will certainly post the new spec here when we receive It. It was helpful to be able to refer to the knowledge base on this forum in the email. Once again, many thanks for the concerned and helpful input.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127529#Comment_127529 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127529#Comment_127529 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:13:38 +0000 windy lamb
If your existing gas boiler (not a combi) heats water via a hot water cylinder then you really need a 3 coil cylinder - we were going to do this (already got oil boiler + wood Rayburn) and was going to add solar thermal but, honestly, a 3 coil tank is getting a bit expensive and complicated (probably why this company is ignoring it).

If you're not happy that this system is adequate and you want your deposit back then take a trip to your local trading standards officer who will give you advice and some letter pro-formas etc. Don't worry it's early days and it wouldn't be too difficult to show that the salesman clearly had no technical knowledge of your requirements.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127530#Comment_127530 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127530#Comment_127530 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:37:51 +0000 wookey
If you are 9 people having daily showers/baths then 150l is far too small. If you share bathwater for a series of kids or enforce short showers, or only do it every 3 days then it could suffice. You want a max of 10l/58mm tube. 7l is better. There is a tradeoff between tank size and water temp with standard bottom-coil set-ups like this. A bigger tank lets you collect more energy, but you get more days where it's only tepid, so the boiler has to fill in more.

So a set of tradeoffs of cost/complexity/tanksize/tubes/usage.

I'd suggest a 250l tank with 36 tubes.

And clearly the cobisol/single coil spec is just completely wrong.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127534#Comment_127534 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=127534#Comment_127534 Thu, 22 Dec 2011 18:06:42 +0000 Hikersong
Clearly, also, we need a tank with more coils than the first spec suggests. It was certainly made clear at the initial talk that we wanted the gas boiler and a future woodburning stove connected. So the price included those provisos as far as we were concerned. And clearly we need more solar panels.

So hopefully the new spec will look a lot more realistic. And of course if it didn't we would make a noise.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=128470#Comment_128470 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8317&Focus=128470#Comment_128470 Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:18:29 +0000 mzthomps
There are five of us in my family with a 220l DHW tank - solar coil at bottom, boiler coil in middle and immersion at top. Fitted about 5 years ago. I wouldn't go any smaller and ideally would have sized it (and the panel area) slightly larger.]]>