Wed, 29 Apr 2026 13:54:53 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9115#Comment_9115 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9115#Comment_9115 Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:43:29 +0000 lafamillemackay Working in Northern Portugal, we have decided to buy an old farmhouse, 2 storey. It dates from the mid-19th century, with thick granite walls. There is insulation on the attic but it has "original" rather ornate tall single glass windows which can't be changed for double glazed ones. The ceilings throughout the house are at 4m height or just over.. there is no heating...
We NEED to get some sort of heating in here. My father who lives in Sweden swears by heat pumps, going to fan units which blow hot air, the argument being 1) the efficiency (electrical) of the HPs and 2) that the fans will distribute the hot air in a room faster. Houses in Sweden are of course hermetically sealed against the elements, so I'm not convinced about how useful it would be here. A few thoughts/comments/questions for the discussion:
1. Although it gets cold in N Portugal, it rarely goes below freezing. The main problem is the damp, we are 1km from the Atlantic. The heating is almost more essential from the point of keeping the house dry.
2. HPs are really only in their infancy over here, a handful of distributors, but they have not got much experience under their belts, and then mainly for apartment/office blocks - it is predicted to increase... like in the UK.
3. One thing our builder is suggesting is night storage heaters.. my experience of these in the UK in the past has been terrible, they have "run out" of heat by midday following day and 5pm is icy, no matter what combination of input/output we tried... Has the technology for these come on in recent years?
4. I'd like to try to steer clear of fossil-fuel CH.. we have not got piped gas and I just don't like the idea of oil..
5. Am I crazy thinking about using fan-units rather than radiators? How does the energy needed to run the fan trade off against the extra time (=electricity) needed for radiators to heat a room?
6. What efficiencies of HP vs standard electricity use have other members experienced? 3:1? 5:1? less?
7. A long shot perhaps, does anyone have any contacts in Portugal for HP providers/contractors?
8. I'm an amateur, have done quite a bit of research on HP on the net, and have bought into the concept, but not sure if it is the appropriate solution for this particular house...?
9. If HP's are not, what is...?

If anyone has any advice, comments, help, I'd be v chuffed! (Please don't tell us to sell up though, it's a FAB house and will be so nice once brought somewhat into the modern age!)

Thanks in advance! Anna]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9153#Comment_9153 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9153#Comment_9153 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:31:17 +0000 tony
These are heat pumps. Nearly all of them can work for either heating or cooling.

My advice is to go for a heat pump. A dehumidifier may be useful too and also consider whole house ventilation system.

Where is your damp coming from?

You will get 3 or 4 kW of heat for each kW of electricity from a heat pump and only one from storage heaters.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9174#Comment_9174 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9174#Comment_9174 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:45:46 +0000 tony
If the mode were switched around then heat can be pumped from outside into the house. There are a lot of small units like this on the market in the UK at the moment. The heat taken from outside is pimped indoors and for 1 Kw of electricity you get 3 or 4 kW of heat -- truly a something for nothing deal.

The net effect of a dehumidifier is to make the house warmer.

The warmer you make the air in the house the more moisture it can hold but when it cools it will condense this back out ( like on window glass )]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9207#Comment_9207 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9207#Comment_9207 Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:25:42 +0000 lafamillemackay PS do you think that, with instructions, a certified a/c engineer would be able to install?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9218#Comment_9218 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9218#Comment_9218 Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:04:13 +0000 tony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9296#Comment_9296 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9296#Comment_9296 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:21:45 +0000 andy1768 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9299#Comment_9299 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9299#Comment_9299 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:55:16 +0000 Paul in Montreal Posted By: lafamillemackayPaul in Montreal, I understand you are a ASHP expert! I have come on a bit since I started this discussion, and now know what ASHP is and am pretty sure that's the way I'd like to go (see project above) - I've just found the Sanyo ECOi-mini-heat-pump on the net and wondered if this is the type of system which might work.. would be grateful for any comments/ideas you might have based on my discussions above... Thanks! in advance

Well, I'm not sure if I'm an expert or not, but an ASHP would be idea for your climate - I lived in Portugal for 2 years and so know that it's cool and damp in winter but hot in summer.

Any of the modern "mini-split" heat pumps would work very well and also give you the benefit of air conditioning too (should you need it). LG, Mitsubishi, Sanyo et al all make good units. I'm sure some of these are available in Portugal, but may be more common in the south.

Paul in Montreal.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9353#Comment_9353 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9353#Comment_9353 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:23:27 +0000 lafamillemackay https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9355#Comment_9355 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=844&Focus=9355#Comment_9355 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:25:04 +0000 lafamillemackay