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Housing - New Build: Unusual arrangement for services into a building?

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    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012 edited
     
    This is my building last feb. The shell is now complete but we still need to bring the services in from the road.

    It's an unusual situation as you can see the retaining wall to the road is bridged by a block and beam platform. The services will come out of the retaining wall and need to bridge the gap to the building itself.

    Can anyone comment on how each of the utilities might want to achieve this? We had quotes from them 2 years ago and had some discussion about the arrangements but it was impossible to get a concrete answer. Rather foolishly perhaps (we had water and elec on the site next door) we decided to go ahead and sort it out at the end.

    The upper stories are SIP frame BTW.

    Cheers

    Ben
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012
     
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012 edited
     
    lay an electric duct from the site boundary to where you want it to and send a plan and a fee with no info about levels :thumbup:

    Water ducted under the platform and send similar plan, I would run the blue pipe yourself and they will inspect the duct into the house and join it to meter in the road etc.

    How will the drain go uphill?

    Gas same as electric

    I am worried about the house getting pushed by the platform, but hopefully neither will ever move.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012
     
    Presumably there is road or pedestrian access from the other side.

    You might have to use that. Water in particular demand a certain cover between the main and the house.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012 edited
     
    The electric co will want the meter cupboard on an outside wall where they can read it without needing to unlock side gates etc.

    Normally you have to provide a meter cupboard on an outside wall with a duct and draw rope coming up into the cupboard from below. Perhaps just turn that upside down so the duct comes in from above. The issue might be the bend radus where it turns down under the platform. One possibility might be to bridge the gap then turn it left or right so it runs along the wall a way. Then turn it down to the meter cupboard.

    I'm not sure what protection the electric co will want for the cable. SWA doesn't normally need any but they might insist. It might be easier to put the cable through duct while the duct is straight, then bend both together as it's fixed in place.

    Normally the consumer unit has to be close to the meter cupboard so the meter tails are around 3-4 metesr. If it's further away then I believe an addional fuse is required in the meter cupboard to protect the tails.

    EDIT: You can sometimes buy approved duct pipe with a thin draw cord already installed in it. Use this to pull a 8mm nylon rope through. Note that twin wall duct isn't allways allowed. Ask local supplier for duct they know is approved.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012 edited
     
    Is there a telephone pole near your house? BT will normally want to take the easy option and run an overhead line from the pole to the nearest point on your house. However if the pole is very close to your boundary you could do what we did and run a cable underground to the bottom of the pole. Leave enough cable coiled up at the bottom of the pole to reach the top with some to spare. When they come to connect you up make sure the engineer knows there is a wire installed and all they have to do is run it up the pole and fit a cover to the bottom half. If you go that route you can choose where the other end/master socket goes in the house (eg somewhere near where you want your modem/router/DECT base station).
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012 edited
     
    I'm pretty sure they won't let you run an overhead water supply in, as I've recently been through this. The nearest main water supply to my plot is around 50 m away on the other side of a small bridge over a stream, but the water company were adamant that I couldn't run a pipe over/under the bridge (even if well protected) and insisted the only way to get water in was to go around 140 m up the lane outside the plot (at more than double the cost).

    My guess is that the water main will have to be tunnelled through the retaining wall and come in from the ground floor.
    • CommentAuthorpmusgrove
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     
    Can the elec company insist on having the outside meter cupboard? I have found that they can put them internally so long as you have put the hockey stick in connecting to the external ducts before they turn up.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     
    We've been in our house 5 years and the electricity co have sent a meter man around twice in that time. They carry a wireless reader but the last time he told me they still need to physically check the meter hasn't been tampered with. So If it's inside perhaps be prepared for the odd day off to wait for the meter man.
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     
    Cheers for replies. We thought about the house getting moved by the platform and the ends of the beams are just resting on an additional 6" block wall with 2" clearance to the outer skin of the house. Any movement should be taken up here. The drains are already installed into a manhole in the lane at the back of the house.

    I am hoping the arrangement CWatters described might be acceptable. My biggest fear is they are going to insist on bringing it in up through the slab. No ducts in place as I had presumed they would bridge the gap. I don't think they would want to go down that deep anyway as they would be digging a whole nearly 3 metres deep in the pavement!

    There is pedestrian access out the other side but it won't be an easy route as it goes through the vets path etc etc. Could prove expensive and problematic.

    Luckily now that United Utilities electricity arm have been taken over by electricity northwest it is actually possible to speak to someone on the phone and arrange for an engineer to visit. No such luck with the other utilities but it's a start.
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     
    Well the gas has turned out to be cheap at £215 but that is prior to an engineer coming out to visit and inspect the site arrangements! Fingers crossed.

    It looks from the comment above that water is going to be the problematic one but Mrs Ben (Bridget) has taken over the role of wide eyed optimist in the relationship and can't see that there will be any problems!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2012
     
    The tricky one might be the water. Needs to be deep enough not to freeze?
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     
    Posted By: CWattersThe tricky one might be the water. Needs to be deep enough not to freeze?


    Is not the owner of the land responsible for the water pipe as soon as it enters his/her plot? if this were so then would there not be the option to put a stop tap at the boundary, keep the pipe above ground and just insulate the pipe really well?

    Jonti
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     
    They will not make the supply connection until you have laid the service connection to the property in accordance with their regs and that means underground.
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     
    Could I just say it's a big trench and I'll fill it in when they have finished? :bigsmile:

    Point taken on the water. I'll just have to see what transpires when the engineer visits.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     
    Posted By: nigelThey will not make the supply connection until you have laid the service connection to the property in accordance with their regs and that means underground.


    If I understand correctly, the desire way would be to have the pipe come out of the retaining wall and across the gap to the building. Also, the gap will be bridged by a walkway/balcony. Could it not be argued that if the pipe where run under the walkway (within it) it would actually be entering the building at that point and so would be underground until it entered the building?

    Jonti
  17.  
    Waterfall with small water turbine?
  18.  
    Posted By: nigelThey will not make the supply connection until you have laid the service connection to the property in accordance with their regs and that means underground.


    True, but Ben can get himself a fencepost with a tap with a non-return valve at the boundary and ask for a temporary connection which they will provide............. once the plumbing is sorted inside then he can finish the job by connecting to the stopcock and removing the fencepost tap :wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthorjonharris
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2012
     
    Mains water pipes usually need to be buried at least 750mm underground to prevent freezing in severe cold weather. This could be a problem since it may well be that the pipe that serves the road is way higher than this (several metres up?) Looks like the water board might have to dig a very deep hole to connect you up, unless you can convince them it can be well insulated and fed under the platform. Be interesting to hear what they say.
  20.  
    If you are going to suggest a well insulated pipe under the platform then the inclusion of trace heating wire may help convince the water authority that it will work. The problem with insulation is that it only keeps heat in - it does not create heat. If, on a v. cold night, you do not use any water for say 10 hours, or you go away for a day or two there could be enough heat loss to freeze the water pipe. The inclusion of the heating wire would solve this problem.
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012
     
    We have seen a water pipe running under a bridge nearby, However I think this is probably a pipe feeding mains water to a number of properties therefore the constant flow of water will avoid any freezing.

    It's also occurred to me that our rainwater harvesting feed might suffer from freezing problems as the feed pipe from that is no buried very deeply either.

    Sometimes there only seem to be problems!
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012
     
    Larger diameter pipes are less likely to freeze so it might be an argument that if you use a 90mm+.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012
     
    Any news Ben?
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012
     
    Hi Jonti,

    No news from the water company yet but an engineer from National Grid is visiting on Thursday. Fingers crossed the news will be good and I'll report back.

    Cheers

    Ben
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2012
     
    2 down one to go! The electricity and gas people visited today. The arrangment agreed with both of them is that I will provide brick built cabinets to the block and beam bridging section between the house and pavement.

    Since the road slopes outside the block and beam is actually about 500mm below pavement level so they can come and more or less straight into the cabinets. Pipe work/cabling can then be run between the cabinets and the house as we please.

    Just awaiting the united utilities on the water now. In fact they called just as the gasman left so all three in one day! The opinion of the gas man is that the electricity people are normally the most awkward but lets wait and see eh?!
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2012
     
    United utilities just called and they are coming next Thursday so....fingers crossed.

    Is it me or have the utility companies suddenly become much, much easier to deal with? It's almost a beautiful experience now. Previously it's felt like pulling teeth trying to get help from them!
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2012
     
    Well the water people called this morning and the news was OK. They can take the water supply across the gap in a 110mm duct. The 25mm PE pipe will have to be run through this and have 25mm of insulation around it.

    All in all not a bad result. The only downside is they made a big fuss about the rainwater harvesting system. They wanted to see the complete system installed before they would provide a connection. They also insisted that the pipe underground should be marked to show it was rainwater.

    However the problem was easily answered. I just said "What if I say I'm not going to commission the system?"

    "oh that's ok they said, just put it in writing!"

    So the answer is we have Gas,Elec and Water all ready to go in with no catastrophies. Breaths sigh of relief!
    • CommentAuthorCav8andrew
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2012
     
    Well done Ben, it can only get better, the days are getting longer and in theory the weather will improve.
    Keep the faith I'm sure it will be worth it.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2012
     
    Good news Ben. Seems like commonsense prevailed in all cases.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorBen1974
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2012
     
    Thanks again for all the encouragement. Still got the hard work to do of actually making holes in that huge retaining wall but I'm sure it won't be so bad once it's actually under way.

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