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    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012
     
    Evening all. Our house is a relatively new build being around 10 years old but is a common mass produced McLean detached property. However, we love where we live and wouldn't move for the world. So to the point of the post. The property has an integrated garage below a bedroom, currently it has an uninsulated steel garage door, the bedroom above is separated with two layers of plasterboard and rockwool between the joists. The internal walls of the garage seem to be a whiteish soft and light-weight block, the garage is also where the non-condensing gas boileris located. An internal door leads from the garage to the hallway. I am sure this is the worst area of the house for heat loss so the first thing to tackle, so should I treat it as external to the envelope, internal or hybrid? I have a electronic thermometer recording 24x7, currently it is reading 13.5 deg C, internal temperature is 20 deg. C and externally 0.5 deg. C

    Thanks all,

    Paul
    • CommentAuthornbwilding
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012 edited
     
    I insulated the 9" brick wall between our integral garage and the house on the garage side using 75mm Celotex/Kingspan covered with plasterboard, all screwed into the wall using long 120mm screws. I rehung the shelves using similarly long screws. Has made a big difference to the heat loss from the house. Some would say you need to frame the wall using battens before inserting the insulation, but the simper method I used seems to have worked fine.

    Nigel
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012 edited
     
    Hi Paul

    The garage should be thermally seperated from the rest of the building, I.E, treated as if it were outside. So all of the walls and ceilings between the garage and the house may allready be insulated to the same level as the rest of the external enveope. Not sure of this became compulsory in the 2002 or 2006 version of Part L. I would drill a hole in the wall from the garage side to confirm


    Some other points to consider:

    Are the pipes from the boiler well insulated?

    Can you improve airtightness?
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: Mike George

    Some other points to consider:

    Are the pipes from the boiler well insulated?


    No the pipes are not well insulated either in the garage or in the room above I guess this would be a relatively simple and inexpensive job.

    Posted By: Mike George
    Can you improve airtightness?


    Probably yes, the steel doors are not weather tight. The plasterboard ceiling is skimmed and then "sealed" with relatively thick and well worked sealant from the original building construction. I have placed compressible foam insulation all away the door frame and sealed up the previous key hole which used to generate an awful cold draught.

    Paul
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012
     
    Insulate ceiling and walls to U=0.1 or as close as you can get to it

    Seal all the tiny gaps an cracks everywhere between the garage and the house.

    Check the party wall cavity between you and next door for heat losses too.
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2012
     
    Hi Paul, we did a few improvements to our integrated garage some time ago
    Info here: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4857&page=1#Item_1
    and here: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2896&page=1#Item_0
    if you are interested.

    We have since had other work done to the house that improved the heat loss from the house to the garage and suddenly we were using more gas because the boiler was running on its frost stat last winter. We insulated our steel up and over door with 25mm EPS, and added a bit of draught proofing to it and the garage temperature came up a couple of degrees to just keep the boiler warm enough.

    HTH,
    Brian.
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2012
     
    Thanks all for the advice. If I'm aiming for U=0.1 how do I get down to that level? Based on what I know the current construction is 12mm plasterboard (0.14 Wm/K) and 160mm lightweight block (0.2 Wm/K). I'm assuming the best insulation would be PUR with a value of 0.022W/mK? At a thickness of 100mm I would still be some way off a U=0.1?

    Paul
  1.  
    Many won't like it here but I wouldn't bother upgrading lower then 0.35W/m2K. Diminishing returns kick in beyond this point. 50mm PUR backed plasterboard is more than adequate.
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2012
     
    Resurrecting an old thread rather than create a new one because I'm now in a position to start work.

    I would ike to improve the insulation of our integrated garage to reduce heat loss from the house into the garage. My understanding is that I should consider it external to the building envelope. Current consruction appears to be lightweight block from garage to house followed with dot and daub plasterboard. The improved insulation is to go on the garage so external to the main envelope but the garage contains a tumble dryer, which although externally ventillated is likely to increase humidity. Plan to date is to lime parge coat the lightweight block for airtightness followed by insulation, then fermacell panels. Originally I was considering PUR insulation but having read a few threads I'm a bit concerned about condensation. So what would be best based on relative thickness and condensation risk, PUR, EPS or something breathable like Diffutherm / Pavadentro, would I need a vapour barrier?

    Paul
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012 edited
     
    Hi Paul,

    I'm not sure which threads you are referring to but if its 'breaking the mould' then the perceived risk is where higher levels of insulation are used. It is highly unlikely to be a problem until you get to levels of insulation lower than around 0.35W/m2K. That is if best practice is followed.

    Even where high levels of insulation are installed, many do not seem to accept John Little's contentions. (I'm warilly sat on the fence)

    I personally wouls go for PIR, installed as in this thread http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1070&page=2#Item_21
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012
     
    The garage is not quite the same as outside it is sheltered and retains some heat, it is a poor idea an integral garage.

    Air seal everything, then insulate as much as you can, presume the house is not passivehouse? so I will go with Mike or a bit better you 100mm sounds OK.
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012
     
    Thanks Mike and Tony,

    I've read the link above and it is very useful I also read the comment from Paul in Montreal in the following thread - http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6760 I like the idea of skipping the need for adhesive and use mechanical fixings instead such as Tapcon or plastic insulation fixing. The construction from the internal wall (external to house) will be:

    1. Lime parge coat floor to ceiling
    2. Tape perimeter; ceiling to wall, wall to floor, wall to wall
    3. PIR insulation; undecided on thickness but somewhere between 50mm to 100mm. Joints taped
    4a. Direct mechanical fixing of PIR to wall
    4b. 1x3 strapping with mechanical fixing through PIR to wall
    5. Fermacell 12.5 or 15mm boards floor to ceiling; mechanical fixing through to wall or if 4b. to strips. Board to board fermacell expanding glue
    6. Mastic top, bottom and side
    7. Fermacell fine surface skim

    Assumed no need for a VCL or barrier.

    Anything that I have missed?

    Paul
    • CommentAuthorCav8andrew
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2012
     
    Paul, is the garage still in use for its intended purpose, if so could I suggest insuring that any insulation that is installed and that could be remotely flammable is faced in a non flammable board (possibly 2 layers of plasterboard). Sorry if this is blindingly obvious.
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