Green Building Forum - Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer Sat, 02 May 2026 11:54:04 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134020#Comment_134020 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134020#Comment_134020 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:34:51 +0000 Jonti ]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134038#Comment_134038 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134038#Comment_134038 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:57:43 +0000 renewablejohn Posted By: joe90Thanks for the photo but it does not show much detail regarding how it is fixed (sorry), how about a small cross sectional sketch showing how its fixed in and the shape of the stone surround,then we can come up with some idea's that your CO can reject!!!!!

joe90

Not a lot to show.The glass is just resting in the opening with lime mortar used as putty on either side to keep the glass in place]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134046#Comment_134046 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134046#Comment_134046 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:23:49 +0000 Joiner
Actually, John, could that not be done now to give backing support to the lead-camed 3g? (The 'lugs'.)]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134056#Comment_134056 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134056#Comment_134056 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:53:44 +0000 Pile-o-Stone
http://www.touchstoneglazing.co.uk/Kimbo-Cottage-34-ne.html

The 3G frameless windows look nice, but the opening leaf really doesn't and so I think my search will have to continue but they might fit your requirements. They also received listed building approval, which amazed me, especially with the openers.]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134057#Comment_134057 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134057#Comment_134057 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:56:06 +0000 Joiner
Wonder how their cost would look spread over 80+ windows though, 'cos I bet they ain't cheap!:shocked:

(Whilst the openers aren't exactly what I'd expect to see, a tad incongruous, they aren't that far off what you'll find in many old buildings with metal casements. I've fitted similar, but of slimmer section with an overall profile on the openers of just over an inch, but that was all single-glazed. If you want the d/g or 3g then you've got to sacrifice something in exchange for the benefits I guess.)]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134070#Comment_134070 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134070#Comment_134070 Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:39:32 +0000 fostertom
The metal openers look great to me - seen many old examples just like that, in amongst frameless fixed glass in adjoining openings. Next to solid stone mullions their thermally poor steel frames won't make matters much worse. It'd be possible to face those mullions internally with an aerogel laminate, significantly better than nothing, tho if you really want to see stone internally, forget that.

Read this in parallel with http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=8551&page=2#Item_15]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134353#Comment_134353 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134353#Comment_134353 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:08:23 +0000 Pile-o-Stone
That cottage isn't a million miles away from where I live either so perhaps worth a road trip to have a toot. :)]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134389#Comment_134389 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134389#Comment_134389 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:11:34 +0000 renewablejohn Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134396#Comment_134396 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134396#Comment_134396 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:36:36 +0000 pmagowan Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134397#Comment_134397 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134397#Comment_134397 Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:37:33 +0000 pmagowan Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134447#Comment_134447 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134447#Comment_134447 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:33:18 +0000 renewablejohn Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134449#Comment_134449 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134449#Comment_134449 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:46:57 +0000 Joiner
http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/building+products/pilkington4architects/tools/pilkington+spectrum.htm]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134454#Comment_134454 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=134454#Comment_134454 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:07:10 +0000 renewablejohn
Thanks for that but I cannot get it to work on my Mac so have asked for a Mac version]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135051#Comment_135051 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135051#Comment_135051 Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:09:48 +0000 renewablejohn Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135097#Comment_135097 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135097#Comment_135097 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:25:01 +0000 Joiner
As to the toughening? He's no idea without talking to the manufacturer, but guessed it might have to do with the smaller unit's not having the "flexibility" to cope with the stresses of any movement that might occur, the middle pane being the one most likely to be affected. When I described your situation (fairly exposed location, old building) he dismissed the possibility of heat build-up, especially with the Optitherm, ended up plumping for the risk of stress breakage.

I can see where he's coming from on that, given that the units will be bedded directly onto the stonework. If you think about it, the 3g WILL actually make the unit more rigid than either a 2g or, especially, a single pane, because as you'll see from those drawings I sent you the glazing (including the mortar) covers the whole of that flat mullion face.

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2po60cg.jpg[/IMG]

The lead is Code 6. And the run of sealant around the edge of the lead came isn't shown.

Anyone else got any suggestions? The drawing gives you the actual situation.

The only other alternative I considered instead of the foam, John, was to use something like Exotex RAG/45 (rafter gasket) around the periphery... http://www.exitex.com/Capex/ItemInfo.aspx?PartRef=1.09.245.]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135100#Comment_135100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135100#Comment_135100 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:34:52 +0000 CWatters Posted By: renewablejohnIf I do go down the route of no opening windows..

Escape from fire?]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135107#Comment_135107 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135107#Comment_135107 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:07:03 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135111#Comment_135111 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135111#Comment_135111 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:30:34 +0000 renewablejohn Posted By: CWatters
Posted By: renewablejohnIf I do go down the route of no opening windows..


Escape from fire?

At the moment the opening windows are to narrow to crawl out of but I did think we might be able to push out the whole 3g pane in case of emergency as it will only be held in with a bead of lime mortar and the expanding foam.]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135112#Comment_135112 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135112#Comment_135112 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:35:39 +0000 renewablejohn
Just like to say thanks publicly for such excellent drawings I hope I dont set a precedent otherwise you might be inundated.]]> Grade 2 listed upgrade to satisfy conservation officer https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135114#Comment_135114 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8562&Focus=135114#Comment_135114 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:59:30 +0000 Joiner
As to the fire escape issue, remember that you can get away with "as long as you haven't made the situation worse than before", the "before" being fixed lights anyway!

BC won't be happy with the crude-but-effective answer of a well-placed size 10, but then I doubt they'd be happy even if the windows were openers, given that the effective escape area would be 300mm wide at best, and then only if the casement was top-hung and metal-framed, which defeats a lot of the object of the 3g and original proposed fixing method to reduce cold-bridging to a minimum and provide a look that coincides with the historic character of the building, which is what the CO is concerned to keep, in which case they'd be looking for an alternative means of escape, which is an entirely different subject. :sad:]]>