Green Building Forum - Biomass power station fires

Biomass power station fires

CWatters — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:19:04 +0000

Is it my imagination or do the fuel piles go up in flames regularly. There have been two fires in recent years at the one near us and now another in Essex. Each time it seems to be the fuel store that goes up..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-17180221

"More than 120 firefighters tackled the blaze, which started in a storage area containing about 4,000 tonnes of wood pellets at about 07:45 GMT."

Google suggests it happens quite frequently?..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-17134178

http://www.theenquirer.co.uk/Orsett+blaze+was+started+maliciously%20id=5235

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/districtnews/9494373.Recycling_firm_told_to_cut_size_of_wood_stacks/

Biomass power station fires

Brianwilson — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:37:32 +0000

Spontaneous combustion is a recognised problem with stored biomass. Have noted proposals to store 200,000 tonnes in external bunkers at one powerplant. It is hoped thermal monitoring will be incorporated to detect developing hotspots. Proposal to import a wide variety of biomass adds to concerns.

Biomass power station fires

RobinB — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:37:50 +0000

It seems one worry is that now they've doused the pellets with water they are swelling and getting so heavy they may burst the building they are stored in. Hadn't thought of that.

Biomass power station fires

SteamyTea — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:44:01 +0000

To save the risk of a parallel thread

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6241&page=33#Item_14

It is a burning issue now

Biomass power station fires

Joiner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:46:15 +0000

Just hit your link, Nick, and it came up as a double-up thead heading. Very strange.

(And for a second and third time.)

Biomass power station fires

SteamyTea — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:50:29 +0000

Works for me.

Biomass power station fires

Joiner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:56:28 +0000

Still doesn't for me. But I know what you mean.

Biomass power station fires

davidfreeborough — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:14:30 +0000

Posted By: RobinBIt seems one worry is that now they've doused the pellets with water they are swelling and getting so heavy they may burst the building they are stored in. Hadn't thought of that.

This is the part I found confusing. Surely the pellet hoppers should be designed to cope with whatever fire fighting strategy their safety procedures define as necessary. If they don't need water then why raise it as a problem? If they do need water then why weren't the hopper's designed to take it?

David

Biomass power station fires

Brianwilson — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:33:50 +0000

I understand rapidly expanding foam was used to snuff out fire but pellets could still be smouldering. Suspect they are using existing coal hoppers for pellet storage.

Biomass power station fires

renewablejohn — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:28:16 +0000

Posted By: BrianwilsonI understand rapidly expanding foam was used to snuff out fire but pellets could still be smouldering. Suspect they are using existing coal hoppers for pellet storage.

If you look at the planning app I put on the biomass thread they reused the coal facilities with minor mods for dust extraction.

Biomass power station fires

Seret — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:35:20 +0000

Posted By: BrianwilsonSuspect they are using existing coal hoppers for pellet storage.

They've said as much in some of the comments to media. Believe the brigade are now using a high-expansion foam to cut down on the amount of water they're pumping in. Sounds like a surprisingly technical fire for what is essentially just a pile of wood.

Biomass power station fires

CWatters — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:36:47 +0000

The small pile at a power station a few miles from us burned for two weeks when that went up. The fire brigade advised them to let it burn itself out once it had been contained. They had an engine there monitoring every time I drove past.

Biomass power station fires

GaryB — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 22:31:27 +0000

For commercial biomass stores a DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations) risk assessment has to be carried out and the storage hoppers are Zone classified, similar to a petrochemical plant.

Biomass power station fires

DamonHD — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 14:29:53 +0000

Ignoring the carbon intensity of actually burning the power station itself (!) but having had pointed out to me that the OTHER category in the the FUELINST data is currently probably Tilbury data (with maybe other biomass to come), I've adjusted the live intensity page to show OTHER (ie Tilbury) at 0.3kgCO2/kWh given RWE's 70%-less-than-coal claim.

http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/1295424/rwe-npower/about-us/our-businesses/power-generation/tilbury/tilbury-biomass/

Rgds

Damon

Biomass power station fires

SteamyTea — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:29:03 +0000

Damon
Does the biomass that DRAX burns just show up (or down) in the general mix?
Is 0.3 kg CO2.kWh^-1 about the same as burning gas?

Biomass power station fires

Brianwilson — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 20:54:40 +0000

Interesting comparison between RWE biomass emissions claims and Biofuelwatch 8-11-11 report below.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qQt3qheQmZsJ:www.biofuelwatch.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/ROCs-briefing-MPS3.pdf+biomass+energy+ROCs&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjPLj_EC_9BSGENKfqseB4SI_mRNVJ2zcZdtuiHBGJe5Hikh2E-p0bzwzA298ysFD98uVeuEe_voOWGXXk30QogV9WncroNaeNcpYu2A-jseLHk_ghTiXxyDhW1rMkLTNHUdYo-&sig=AHIEtbRaEZr3NF2gyY8AhgleUja5ZMOyJA
Quotes from article, â€œBiomass produces carbon from combustion , processing ,transport and land usage change. Indeed the upfront carbon emissions from burning biomass are around 50% higher than those from burning coal per unit of energyâ€. â€œPer unit of energy , biomass burning produces similar levels of air pollution as coal burning but even higher levels of nitrogen dioxide and small particles which are linked to respiratory and heart diseaseâ€ . The article also questions carbon sequestration claims

Biomass power station fires

DamonHD — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 21:46:07 +0000

ST:

CCGT=0.36
OCGT=0.48

So the new figure is better than either gas turbine.

The COAL figure is fixed and I presume that currently all DRAX output is under COAL, so no allowance is made for co-firing.

FUELINST and my computed intensity value are both approximations of course.

Rgds

Damon

Biomass power station fires

SteamyTea — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 23:30:30 +0000

Thanks Damon
Though I did go and look for myself, was just being idle, I blame it on my newly broken nose, 4th time now

Biomass power station fires

renewablejohn — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 04:37:37 +0000

Brian

That Biofuelwatch report is so biased in so many ways it is truly a work of fiction.

Biomass power station fires

Brianwilson — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:16:16 +0000

Agreed there is obvious bias, sadly it appears from both camps but spin from the combustion lobby causes avoidable health and environmental damage. UK EFW and biomass proposals detail hazardous emissions at least 29 times higher than gas and as you are aware John many times higher than Contintental equivalents. UK Gov confirms air quality degradation resulting from impact will create additional Â£2803 million/yr in health and environmental cost and this figure based on anticipated pollution far lower than combustion reality.
Looking at powerplant applications, noted large biomass plant in Nth East proposed quayside storage for 200,000 tonnes of imported woodchip in bays open to the elements, expressed concern at this proposal but it does highlight sad lack of due diligence Illustrations of UK installations include photos of large piles of biomass material when aware spontaneous combustion is a constant hazard.
One example of serious bias a local Snr County Cllr claims their very expensive incinerator will help save the planet, their claim of energy from waste suffered a blow when updated data shows useful power out reduced by 30 miilion units from original spec but same burn rate. Now to be 18% efficient far lower than AD when waste known to have high biodegradable content. To be sited immediately upwind of large conurbation with rising ground downwind. Admitted emissions will be far higher than Continental equivalent so we have the unfortunate situation where UK folk are considered of less value than Continentals. Apparently it comes under economics of BAT applicable and what you can get away with under UK regs and yes I admit bias, hate waste and hate deliberate degradation of air quality.

Biomass power station fires

Joiner — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:56:14 +0000

Nick, either stay off the beer or stop picking fights with people bigger than yourself.

Biomass power station fires

tony — Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:54:40 +0000

Did we have one in winter?

Biomass power station fires

CWatters — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:55:56 +0000

You mean a fire? No.

Biomass power station fires

tony — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:17:54 +0000

May be not, saw something on the news about spontaneous combustion in wood piles at a recycling centre

Biomass power station fires

windy lamb — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:52:44 +0000

Used to have to inspect wood chip piles at a chipboard factory (mainly for wind blown dust emissions) but on more than one occasion the report of dust turned out to be smoke. A pile, usually covering several acres,would heat up over months and start burning, resulting in some smoke /some steam. Allow a bit more air in (by digging into it) and the whole thing goes up in flames. You have to treat these fires the same way as one did coal slag heap fires - it's messy, expensive and hugely polluting.

Biomass power station fires

renewablejohn — Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:38:24 +0000

You can use this smouldering woodchip to advantage. I designed and installed a sawdust/ woodchip burner in my polytunnel for a slow overnight burn to aid frost protection.