Pet hate.... It has long seemed to me that there is a very polemic conflict of interests between energy efficiency and listed building status. As in what they will and won't let you do. Do we have to freeze in an admittedly pretty bit of heritage, or can it be livable and even green?

I am in the process of installing an eco-friendly energy system for a client in a grade 2 listed building. I'm not after heating advice as such, but passive measures (insulation/glazing etc) that are generally allowed in Gr 2 listed buildings - and which members have found helpful in improving comfort and reducing consumption.

Thanks in anticipation, Crusoe.

Loft insulation, air tightness, hardboard and thick underlay to suspended timber ground floors and thermal; linings to curtains. If possible, a wood burning stove for the main living room. Live differently - heat less, wear more, heat the rooms you use most. Beyond that it gets expensive and is probably not worthwhile.
Internal insulation to external walls is potentially damaging due to interstitial condensation issues (GBF passim). Secondary glazing possible but costly, slim double glazing units can be retrofitted in existing windows, subject to consent, but are v. expensive. Insulating under floors possible but disruptive (and old floorboards can be damaged in the lifting)
There is evidence that improving energy efficiency does not necessarily result in reduced energy consumption - people taking the benefit of increased comfort by heating more (on the basis, presumably, that more 'efficient' houses are worth heating).

EST probably have written this up at some time, in terms of 'taking the saving' in heat rather than in money saved. It's a classic Fuel Poverty conundrum.

Joiner, I have responded to your challenge on your other thread

Spike, I do think it depends on the people in the property and their upbringing and mindset. I installed a TS with oversize solar and condensing gas boiler AND increased heating for an older couple (more comfort) and saved them over 50% on their combined gas/electric bills. But instead of going to town with more heating, they are thrifty and maintain the saving. I suspect many (but not all!) couples from the war/immediate post-war era who have lived through real depressions have this mentality - take care of the pennies etc.

Thanks for input, keep 'em coming....

Oh, and ground floors are well-insulated and will have UFH.

Posted By: SpikeInternal insulation to external walls is potentially damaging due to interstitial condensation issues

unless -special case - the building has plastered lath and batten lined masonry walls. In that case, def remove all that and replace with plasterboard laminate of same thickness. I'm thinking of common Victorian classic construction; cornices, large moulded wooden skirtings, chair and/or picture rails. Best leave the cornices undisturbed; fill with squirty foam behind as far as poss, but reinstate the other decorative stuff on the new surface. Run the pbd lam right down thro the floor voids, fitted round joists, to meet top of ceiling below. The insulation won't be gd enough to cause significantly increased danger to embedded joist ends. Use breatheable laminate preferably.

All this is because the void space behind the lath & plaster will be well ventilated to outside air, even tho it's supposed to add a little insulation to a solid wall. When the wind blows, there will be only the plaster thickness between you and the outside air. In that case only, IMO, is IWI a gd idea,

Crusoe

Where does one start. Whatever you do will probably end up a battle with your Conservation Officer. Best policy I have found is first name terms with English Heritage. Whatever CO says get it vetted with English Heritage and ask them for guidance. I have a very old draughty stone farmhouse. We started by putting 600mm insulation in loft which made a big difference straight away. 200mm in eaves 200mm between rafters 200 across rafters. Next came change from oil Aga and oil central heating boiler to wood burning Esse and Dunsley Yorkshire central heating boiler (I have free timber so no brainer). Now on more difficult stage with CO of 3G windows quoting existing other Grade 2 houses already using the system. Stone walls are 2 foot thick and cannot do anything about apart from being well pointed to keep out draughts. Eventually new sealed oak doors but as yet not found a listed building with approved doors of this construction

renewablejohn - any chance of knowing which 3G windows (or good DG come to that) IS allowed please?

Thanks, crusoe.

Do I detect a whiff of schadenfreude Joiner?

Thanks .... I think. I do wish they were accountable so that the decisions were not so arbitrary. Amazing in this dage eh...

You may shortly hear of a third person who has totally lost it.

I am about to talk to a prospective customer about internal insulation of attic walls and roof for a Georgian grade 2 listed building. I get the impression that the rafters are covered with lath and plaster,so am wondering, whether to fit insulation over it instead of pulling it all down.
The customer is very keen on green insulation products, what are your suggestions?

<blockquote><cite>Posted By: renewablejohn</cite>Crusoe

Where does one start. Whatever you do will probably end up a battle with your Conservation Officer. Best policy I have found is first name terms with English Heritage. Whatever CO says get it vetted with English Heritage and ask them for guidance. I have a very old draughty stone farmhouse. We started by putting 600mm insulation in loft which made a big difference straight away. 200mm in eaves 200mm between rafters 200 across rafters. Next came change from oil Aga and oil central heating boiler to wood burning Esse and Dunsley Yorkshire central heating boiler (I have free timber so no brainer). Now on more difficult stage with CO of 3G windows quoting existing other Grade 2 houses already using the system. Stone walls are 2 foot thick and cannot do anything about apart from being well pointed to keep out draughts. Eventually new sealed oak doors but as yet not found a listed building with approved doors of this construction</blockquote>

It would appear having English Heritage as a mentor does eventually pay dividends. At a meeting this week with the CO and enforcement officer they have finally agreed to 3G glass with lime Mortor direct into the stone surrounds on the old parts of the house and deeper rebated window frames to accommodate 3G on the newer extensions. What I have had to agree to is a listed building consent application instead of just doing it like for like but at least it's movement after 3 years of wrangle. Call me a cynic but I will not believe it until the lbc is signed off and approved.

Yes, very well done great job!