Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition |
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These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment. PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book. |
Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
Posted By: djh Seamus, they apparently have a UK agent, so most of us aren't your potential customers, if that makes a difference to you.I'm not selling or looking to sell Xsorb , I'm just trying to find out if it works as they claim and if it does work, is it possible to build it into the middle floor or external walls of a Passive House? so please don't shoot the messenger! I'm not making claims about this product, I'm just curious like some other people here. If it does store 4 times as much energy as water @ £3-£4/kWh stored (water stores cost about £12/kWh stored) then I'm interested, if it can store more then it's a bonus.
Posted By: beelbeebubThis stuff can punt out serious (like +80C) heat if you get it properly wet.
Posted By: beelbeebubI worked with a adsorbtion (not a spelling mistake) desiccant system some time ago (for a super fast tumble dryer). It came in the form of little pea sized beads.
Posted By: beelbeebub I'd be a little worried about building it into the structure of a building, partly because of the air tightness thing and partly because of the difficulty of providing ducts, plus what happens when the bath overflows/roof leaks? This stuff can punt out serious (like +80C) heat if you get it properly wet. I could see this process (possibly) working in a sealed package like a storage heater or water tank system, but not as a building component like insulation slabs.Thanks Brian for your insight, this is the type of useful information I'd hoped would come from this thread, if you were going to use a product like this to store heat how would you use it? Would it be better to store it outside a building?
Posted By: Ed DaviesFor posterity, the conversation started here:Hi Ed, Would you mind cutting and pasting your adsorption calculation onto this thread, I think its relevant to teasing out a conclusion.
So from a gas the water would give up its latent heat of evaporation (from gas to liquid) then of liquification (from liquid to I).
Posted By: Ed Davies The key is that the air entering the heat exchanger from the outside world must have more energy (enthalpy????) because of the water vapour it contains than the cold dry air which is chucked back out.This is an interesting statement, you're bringing in moisture from outside into the house to replenish the system, can there be a situation where the incoming air doesn't have enough moisture to activate the Xsorb?
Posted By: DamonHDwould work in conjunction with the MHRV to keep RH and temperature reasonable
Posted By: Ed DaviesYou do need enough moisture.Thanks Ed, what about the old rule of thumb that a family produces 10 litres of moisture/day?
Suppose you're adsorbing 6g of water for every m³ of air (most but not all of the water in 50% RH, 20°C air). Suppose also that the heat released is 2500 kJ/kg so 15 kJ/m³ and that the air change rate is 0.4 ach with a room height of 2.5 m so 1 m³ per m² of floor area per hour. Power density to the house would be 15 kJ/(m²·h) or 4.16 W/m². A pretty low rate - it's not going to help much unless you're around Passivhaus levels and even then you might need to blow more air through than you'd otherwise expect, particularly when it's very chilly.
Posted By: Viking Houseso please don't shoot the messenger!
Posted By: djh Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you! Just a bit p**ed off by their website.No worries Dave, would love your input here, critical or otherwise!
Posted By: Ed DaviesYou do need enough moisture.
Posted By: Viking HouseThanks Ed, what about the old rule of thumb that a family produces 10 litres of moisture/day?
Posted By: djhAnd xsorb's US patent wouldn't be as vague as it is. I really would like to see the UK one.I called him (Piet) again today, he texted back that his Dad's gone into hospital with heart problems. So it may be a few days before we get any more info.
Posted By: djhObviously bits of dust or pollen will block pores, so you need some fine filters, but also other molecules than water might like to gather in the pores - VOCs, oils, smoke etc. So perhaps additional filters are needed as mentioned in Ed's link. Filters mean maintenance and any remaining poisoning may limit the useful lifetime of the zeolite.Its used over and over again to dry natural gas so I'm not sure how big an issue this could be!
Posted By: tonyIn this world there is never something for nothing, I cant see it guys, sorry