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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2012
     
    Fostertom,

    Yes, but what of grey water use:devil:

    P.S. after my extensive reading and watching my wife endure treatment for cancer I would never allow radio or chemotherapy to be used on me.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012
     
    Tom, please stop typing this crap in. I keep feeling obliged to read it, and it's getting very tiresome. JSH has carefully explained why.

    "Does no one on GBF know what I'm talking about?"

    No. So far as I can see there is universal irritation/sadness/derision/indifference. Give it up.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012 edited
     
    Let's test. Sheldrake. Bohm. In-his-prime Lovelock. What's the reaction - are these 'crap'? If so, then I'm in good company.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012 edited
     
    Tom, the issue is over making definitive statements about homoeopathy, "resonance", "intentionality" etc that are not definitive (i.e. they have not been shown to be the cause of an observed effect) and in the vast majority of cases any effect observed has been shown to be unrelated to supposed treatment.

    No one is likely to argue against the principle that belief and faith are powerful methods of producing curative or positive (or in the case of voodoo, negative) effects. It's the use of pretend pseudo-scientific explanations for cause that tends to wind rational people up.

    What's wrong with just accepting that faith and belief are powerful methods of affecting health and well-being on their own? Why dress them up with stuff that's misleading?

    FWIW, the vast majority of doctors believe in the positive effect of belief, and have done so for generations (think back to the well-documented "sugar pill cures" in the past that lead to the study of the subject in depth). Medicine evolved from a belief system and still uses that to reinforce treatment today. Some branches of medicine (and science) are wholly dependent on belief, and have been striving for well over 100 years to understand better how belief effects well-being, so you making all-encompassing statements condemning all modern medicine is a bit OTT, in my view.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: JSHarristhe issue is over making definitive statements about homoeopathy, "resonance", "intentionality" etc that are not definitive (i.e. they have not been shown to be the cause of an observed effect)
    I've said often enough that I'm just hypothesising - longing for respected peers to (temporarily) enter into a 'what-if' on its own terms, explore what it might mean, quite likely say something that will change my mind (often does, in this 'university of the air'). Is it something in my style that looks like definitiveness? True, the 'what-ifs' are not just random stirrers, but have weight as things that, to me, offer explanation across a correlation of my and others' personal experiences and things read etc.

    Posted By: JSHarrisNo one is likely to argue against the principle that belief and faith are powerful methods of producing curative or positive (or in the case of voodoo, negative) effects. It's the use of pretend pseudo-scientific explanations for cause that tends to wind rational people up.
    But when Science won't touch such subjects with a bargepole, except (despite admission that real, powerful effects are at work) with strong Intention to disprove or demean them, what to do?

    It's OK for Science to say it can't handle such stuff (leave it to others) but not OK to proceed from that, to saying that only stuff that Science can handle is real, the rest is offensive rubbish.

    And I don't accept that Science can't look into anything at all that actually happens in the universe - it's just a latter-day rigidity that refuses. The Natural Philosophers in their Victorian heyday of boundless curiosity must be spinning in their graves. They had no trouble reconciling Science and Christianity, for example - how can modern Scientists be Christians (as some are) whilst denying anything else 'spooky'?

    And as a mere A-level physicist I am allowed to use any language I choose, and hope that proper scientists may respectfully help me improve my understanding and terminology.

    Posted By: JSHarrisWhat's wrong with just accepting that faith and belief are powerful methods of affecting health and well-being on their own? Why dress them up with stuff that's misleading?
    Why not try to understand scientifically what's happening? Why this apartheid?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012
     
    Tom, please stop spamming threads on other topics.

    If you want to talk about this stuff then start a separate thread.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012 edited
     
    OK fair enough - but someone else made a homeopathy 'joke' and I couldn't resist.

    I find it hard to believe that bath water is really so full of dangerous toxins. I guess that if chemically stable, and soluble, no prob, as it will be diluted and washed through by rain (but not in a polytunnel). Other chemicals e.g. detergents might do strange reactions in the soil, and might not be soluble, so might build up.

    Our veg garden is where it is, on a bit of what used to be virgin field, because they'd conveniently broken the ground to renew the soakaway pipes from the old brick so-called septic tank, which I doubt does much organic decomposition, never needs emptying, so must be passing everything (grey and 'black' water) down thro our vegs' root-zone. Yum yum.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: fostertom</cite>OK fair enough - but someone else made a homeopathy 'joke' and I couldn't resist.

    I find it hard to believe that bath water is really so full of dangerous toxins. I guess that if chemically stable, and soluble, no prob, as it will be diluted and washed through by rain (but not in a polytunnel). Other chemicals e.g. detergents might do strange reactions in the soil, and might not be soluble, so might build up.

    Our veg garden is where it is, on a bit of what used to be virgin field, because they'd conveniently broken the ground to renew the soakaway pipes from the old brick so-called septic tank, which I doubt does much organic decomposition, never needs emptying, so must be passing everything (grey and 'black' water) down thro our vegs' root-zone. Yum yum.</blockquote>

    I believe that the problem with using bath and shower water directly on fruit and vegetables is fairly low-risk and related to the fact that bath and shower water contains very small amounts of faecal material (because of the rather nasty British habit of just wiping our bottoms and smearing the stuff around...........).

    If you're a bidet user, and if the bidet waste is plumbed to the foul drain, then any risk from watering plants with shower or bath waste water should be virtually non-existent, I'd have thought.

    There is probably a bacterial risk from using stored grey water, as it's pretty well documented that the stuff grows all sorts of bacteria if left around for a few days or weeks.
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