Green Building Forum - How easy is it?

How easy is it?

tony — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:06:58 +0000

The government wants to achieve a target of all new homes being "Zero Carbon" by 2016

How easy is this?

VERY! or even easy peasy

Hows that you ask? Simple --- by not defining what they mean by "Zero Carbon" !!!!!!!!!

How easy is it?

Terry — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:31:25 +0000

thats a bit cynical Tony. politicians making hazy statements - never

How easy is it?

jon — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:23:23 +0000

Hi Tony

>>The government wants to achieve a target of all new homes being "Zero Carbon" by 2016<<

Zero carbon is defined in the CfSH technical notes

Are you aware that the Government has said that it *will* implement zero carbon in 2016? I thought the phrase used was 'aspirational'

The target defined in the Draft Climate Bill is 60% compared to a 1990 baseline: This could be interpreted to mean level 5 ('net zero carbon')

Edit: Checked EWP: The phrase used was 'date fixed by consultation'

The consultation is the BERR document: Unfortunately BERR is confused as the consultation says

"All new homes to be zero carbon by 2016" and, in the same paper, "leading to net zero-carbon new dwellings by 2016 (subject to consultation)."

If anyone knows of a definitive statement of timetable, it would be very useful!

How easy is it?

ted — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:56:54 +0000

Whether it's an 'ambition', 'target' or 'aspiration' the 'get out' clauses have been there from the beginning:

"The Government is clear in its determination to achieve its energy policy objectives
through an approach that is consistent with the principles of good regulation. Over the
coming months, we will work to refine our estimates of the benefits the measures in this
consultation document are expected to deliver, and the policy and administrative costs
that will arise. Only measures that are well targeted, reasonable and proportionate will be
implemented. We will assess this on a case-by-case basis, while having regard to the
collective regulatory impact on business and other parties."

Building A Greener Future:
Towards Zero Carbon Development - Consultation
DCLG - December 2006

And don't forget that 2016 is for England. Wales is expecting to do it by 2010.

How easy is it?

tony — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:12:35 +0000

How are Wales going to do that?

How easy is it?

jon — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:26:48 +0000

Easy to do providing that Central government does not require any targets to be met for housebuilding (you allow the rate of new build to reduce). Do such targets (and financial penalties that go with them) apply to Wales?

How easy is it?

ted — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:04:06 +0000

I understand that the Welsh Assembly are expecting to get devolved control over Building Regulations and will then amend them.

So unless a new home is zero carbon it will not meet the new Building Regs.

How easy is it?

Peter A — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:47:06 +0000

I wonder if they will get some sort of funding from the English parliament/tax payer?

How easy is it?

jon — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:07:20 +0000

either:

1: relax Planning
2: accept lower rates of building (which partially defeats a climate change objective)
3: fund from public purse

any others?

Does anyone know if and how they intend to do it? Is it a real commitment or spin?

How easy is it?

Bowman — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:27:51 +0000

What about the 20 million odd existing homes?

How easy is it?

tony — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:32:41 +0000

Bowman said, "What about the 20 million odd existing homes?" -------------------- They dont count!!!!

Crazy thing is that they dont feature at all. Its a mad mad mad world.

How easy is it?

jon — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:40:41 +0000

Quite right:

So, given the likely economic environment, if implemented, the CfSH will just result in the country 'hunkering down' to making use of existing buildings where the effects of Climate Change legislation do not apply.

Defeats the object without one or more of the counter measures (a relaxation of planning or subsidise new builds). But maybe that's the point?

How easy is it?

tony — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:59:40 +0000

Even if we were to achieve all new homes being built being zero carbon (whatever that might mean) ---- This is cloud cuckoo land any way.

This is only 1% of the problem: OK per year and after 10 years we will have 10% of homes... it makes me laugh to think about it. I would love to see it though.

But then the existing housing stock will be wasting energy like crazy or more likely all be freezing cold -- no more wood, fuel too expensive?

How easy is it?

Bowman — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:45:34 +0000

I noticed something the other day when researching fuel prices, the more you use the cheaper it gets, not unusual in normal economics, but surely there would be an all round benefit in having prices increase the more one used? This would benefit those in fuel poverty, and encourage energy efficiency, a pretty tasty carrot I reckon?

How easy is it?

tony — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:17:57 +0000

The best idea I have heard in a long time!!!

How easy is it?

jon — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:47:50 +0000

In order to implement, you would need to know the number of occupants and have a way of ensuring that they did not lie about it: Possibly by linking the Inland Revenue database to that of every electricity supplier.

If carbon rationing comes about, this may well happen.

How easy is it?

Bowman — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:38:57 +0000

Jon, why would you need to know the number of inhabitants? But I do think there would be great potential to abuse, multiple meters for instance (though I think the supplier would have to be pretty daft to let that happen). No idea how it could be legislated.

The people it would shock the most would be people like my parents, pensioners in big draughty houses, running dirty old oil, complaining of being skint, and suggesting that they'll be long gone before climate change and peak oil become genuine problems.

My point though was really to Tony's question, zero carbon for new builds is completely dodging the issue, what is needed is the upgrade of the entire housing stock. If at some stage in the future all new homes are zero carbon (whatever that means) while all existing homes meet their 20% target, we might if we're lucky reduce fossil fuel consumption by 30%, if all homes new and old could reduce consumption 50%, we gain a whole 20%, and probably for less capital outlay.

Scrap VAT on all renewables and insulation products, scrap the ridiculous grant scheme (you want a grant? oh, we've just given the money to someone else, none left sorry) convert the Low Carbon Building Program to a certification initiative, with properly trained advisor's employed by the program ala Citizens Advise Bureau.

I think I might be getting carried away, sorry....

How easy is it?

Mike George — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:52:47 +0000

Posted By: jon
Does anyone know if and how they intend to do it? Is it a real commitment or spin?

I know The Welsh Quality Housing Standard is intended to bring all rented and housing association stock up to 'standard' http://new.wales.gov.uk/desh/publications/housing/whqslaguide/guide?lang=en
Pages14-16 highlights the minimum requirements which include all walls roofs ad floors being in a good state of repair. This invariably results in work subject to Part L1b which in turn requires insulation and other SAP rated critiria to be addressed. I have been involved with a regeneration scheme in Wales and seen this working in practice. The deadline for this to be achoeved throughout Wales is 2010 I agree it could be better- but it is a start

How easy is it?

jon — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:55:18 +0000

Does seem to be a useful start

My local authority have just published their town plan to meet the sustainability agenda.. where sustainability has been liberally interpreted to mean that the economics of the town centre businesses should be made more sustainable. Also energy was mentioned (at the bottom of the list).

I think the government has about as much chance as a snowball in hell against this lot.

How easy is it?

biffvernon — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:44:47 +0000

This report is pertinant: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7113165.stm

Download the report, HOME TRUTHS: A LOW CARBON STRATEGY TO REDUCE UK HOUSING EMISSIONS BY 80%
from the Environment Change Institute at http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/

How easy is it?

tony — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:52:27 +0000

Cut all ...by 80% how meaningful is a statement like that?

Will it ever happen?

How easy is it?

biffvernon — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:47:03 +0000

Yes. We will be so far beyond Peak Oil by then that it will have happened. The question is whether we plan the energy descent or have it surprised on us.