Green Building Forum - The five most important decisions to take before...

The five most important decisions to take before...

joe90 — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:49:48 +0100

Whenever I get involved in a customers job the first question I ask is "what do you want to achieve" and the answer should be their human requirement for the work i.e. space for eating and socialising or cosy room for sleeping, not what its made of. From these first stepping stones you can offer solutions and start specifying.

The five most important decisions to take before...

DamonHD — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:57:22 +0100

And that is the job of a good consultant: pull the client's nose away from whatever particular problem finally made them call in help, step back to view the bigger picture, and find solutions that meet their primary and other goals drawing on experience of available techniques and some creative thinking as needed.

And note, that could be in IT or interior design or urban planning or whatever...

Rgds

Damon

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Wed, 16 May 2012 12:11:06 +0100

Posted By: DamonHDthat could be in IT or interior design or urban planning or whatever...

or emigration ...

The five most important decisions to take before...

RobinB — Wed, 16 May 2012 12:55:02 +0100

Besides the financial and matrimonial challenges I'd say that the hardest part was sorting the wheat from the chaff when choosing the right professionals and craftspeople.

This prayer came to me more than once, especially the last line......

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

The five most important decisions to take before...

DamonHD — Wed, 16 May 2012 13:05:35 +0100

...and a good accountant to help me pay VAT only on the margin?

The five most important decisions to take before...

Peter_in_Hungary — Wed, 16 May 2012 19:47:32 +0100

Posted By: fostertom
CommentAuthorhttp://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/account.php?u=21" >fostertom
CommentTime7 hours ago
quote
Posted By: DamonHDthat could be in IT or interior design or urban planning or whatever...
or emigration ...

bin there - dun that.............

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Wed, 16 May 2012 21:17:54 +0100

Bin Who?

The five most important decisions to take before...

mike7 — Thu, 17 May 2012 12:37:39 +0100

quote
If someone is trying to build an eco or energy efficient house

Many comments so far apply to any kind of house you might be building, 'eco' or not. I'd say one of the five has to be where the house is sited. Even if you're able to work from home, there's not much point in worrying about a few kWh here or there if you're ten miles up a track, off the bus route, nowhere near the shops, school, doctor, home help, post office, friends, judo class......

The five most important decisions to take before...

Joiner — Thu, 17 May 2012 13:00:50 +0100

Mike, the significance of the "eco" and the posts so far reflects the fact that such a house is going to be a bit more involved, and therefore more expensive, to build.

E.g. Digging out for footings or a raft foundation doesn't have quite the complexity of making those founds a thermal store by using parts of the house as a means of transferring the maximum amount of (potential) energy there as efficiently as possible, energy harvested by as big a pv array as practicable on the roof and/or solar thermal in the garden or on the roof. Nothing green seems to come cheap by virtue of both the materials from which it's made and the controls needed to make the most of it - unless you go the Ben Law route.

And it's arguable that "worrying about a few kWh here or there" is going to be worth it if the saving goes some way to offsetting the energy cost of being "ten miles up a track, off the bus route, nowhere near the shops, school, doctor, home help, post office, friends, judo class....."

The five most important decisions to take before...

marktime — Thu, 17 May 2012 18:36:51 +0100

I see that nobody has yet has referred to aesthetics. Anyone can draw up a house plan using MS Paint but a plan is not a design. A quick look at a lot of self-builds will confirm that drawing is one thing, designing another. That's where a good architect can transform basic ideas and wants into a visually appealing whole.

Getting a good architect....well that's another challenge as important as any other element in the decision process.

The five most important decisions to take before...

JSHarris — Thu, 17 May 2012 19:18:55 +0100

Posted By: marktimeI see that nobody has yet has referred to aesthetics. Anyone can draw up a house plan using MS Paint but a plan is not a design. A quick look at a lot of self-builds will confirm that drawing is one thing, designing another. That's where a good architect can transform basic ideas and wants into a visually appealing whole.

Getting a good architect....well that's another challenge as important as any other element in the decision process.

How true that is!

One big problem is finding an architect who hasn't got an ego the size of a house, who will actually listen to what his/her clients really want, who will take heed of the hard limits (like the budget) that the client has imposed, and who doesn't want to take over the whole project and leave his/her client on the sidelines.

My experience hasn't been good in finding an architect that understands what we want. I've ended up going through a fairly steep learning process, getting to grips with both the aesthetics of good design (for me, the hardest part) and the restrictions imposed by all the various regulations. I found that the latter were close to being ignored by the first couple of architects we contacted, they sketched out initial designs that looked OK, but that obviously weren't going to comply with the planning restrictions in our brief and which wouldn't have complied with BRs either.

I've reluctantly decided to design the next (and hopefully final) version of our new build myself. I want something more interesting than the current design (hence the question previously raised about the window in the gable end planning problem), something that will blend, and fit seamlessly, into the landscape, but still give us the spaces we want. I want to try and do the impossible, create a DIY design that will compete with that from a time-served architect, but with me only having a year or so of experience. Some may think that's arrogant on my part, I prefer to think of it as a challenge............

The five most important decisions to take before...

joe90 — Thu, 17 May 2012 20:44:19 +0100

JSH is so right, I have already designed the house I want to build, just have not found the plot yet!!!!! I also have found getting architects to listen to a brief difficult, perhaps JSH and I are unlucky. A neighbour wanted an extension built and asked me round to view what an architect had proposed, being to sole of discression and timid I told them it looked crap (they like me for my honesty) and grabbing pen and paper sketched what I would want if it was mine, they loved it and gave it to the architect and said "we want this please". I dont think it is rocket science just common sense.

Go for it JSH. Why shouldnt you have what you want?, oh dear planners!!!!!!

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Thu, 17 May 2012 21:02:38 +0100

Posted By: JSHarristhe planning restrictions in our brief

are in my architectural experience often surprisingly moveable. The worst thing to do is to ask the planners what wd be acceptable in principle. They'll give you some safe, conservative answer and it'll go on the record and be another obstruction to overcome.

Better to keep v quiet, to work out what you really really want, draw it up beautifully (easy to far exceed the norm in application drawings), get really keen to have it, then hit them with something that looks
a) very convincing, tho not what a planner cd have imagined until presented with it
b) an unstoppable force!

In my experience it almost always works. Including if it's a Listed Building. The key is to do 'the right thing' for the site, not try for something offensively unsympathetic or oversized for the site. Planners and LBOs are so grateful to be treated as peers and allies, instead of an object of manipulatiuon

The five most important decisions to take before...

JSHarris — Thu, 17 May 2012 21:30:51 +0100

Maybe so, FT, but it depends on the planning history. I'm dealing with a plot that'd had five planning applications over 6 years before I came on the scene, so there is a fair bit of immovable baggage there that needs to be taken into account.

If it were a new plot, then I'm sure what you say might apply, but if you inherit someone else's mess you have to take account of the things that you know aren't going to change.

The five most important decisions to take before...

JSHarris — Thu, 17 May 2012 21:46:26 +0100

Posted By: joe90JSH is so right, I have already designed the house I want to build, just have not found the plot yet!!!!! I also have found getting architects to listen to a brief difficult, perhaps JSH and I are unlucky. A neighbour wanted an extension built and asked me round to view what an architect had proposed, being to sole of discression and timid I told them it looked crap (they like me for my honesty) and grabbing pen and paper sketched what I would want if it was mine, they loved it and gave it to the architect and said "we want this please". I dont think it is rocket science just common sense.

Go for it JSH. Why shouldnt you have what you want?, oh dear planners!!!!!!" alt="" src="/forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/cry.gif">

Glad it's not just me!

I took the time to write a two page brief for the architects, using a key requirements, bullet point, format. I started with the requirements that were, for us, immutable, the bare minimum that we'd accept. Next I listed the important requirements, over which we might compromise if given a persuasive argument to do so, but would really like to be incorporated in the house if possible. Finally I listed the "nice to haves" that we'd like to have but would sacrifice if something more important conflicted with one or more of them.

I was a bit surprised at the way that the architects we spoke to would latch on to one of our points, run with it, and virtually ignore other equally important points. I got the distinct impression they weren't good at listening to clients, and tended to be in constant transmit, something that eventually caused me to bin the idea of using any of them.

As a final point, is it just me or do a lot of architects have really, really bad web sites? The ones I looked at were very "arty", but totally and absolutely useless from the clients prospective. These folk need to start thinking from the viewpoint of their clients, who want to see examples of their work, understand the way their practice works and appreciate the values and standards the practice adheres to. What prospective clients don't want to see is some arty farty Adobe Flash front page, that tells them nothing and takes a week to load. Far too many architectural practices were pretty dire at plain speaking on their web sites, I found.

The five most important decisions to take before...

Ed Davies — Thu, 17 May 2012 22:36:42 +0100

Posted By: JSHarrisAs a final point, is it just me or do a lot of architects have really, really bad web sites?

Nope, that also is not just you; I have yet to see any evidence that they're not all egregiously and insultingly bad.

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Fri, 18 May 2012 00:29:44 +0100

They write some very pious woffle. One was full of ethical this and that but he stole my copyright bigtime.

Posted By: JSHarristhe things that you know aren't going to change

Well, they can and do, given a new vision/solution that hadn't occurred to anyone hitherto. Really, the site, its characteristics and 'real' constraints (i.e. comes down to what wd look right, pics/precedents, whatever it takes to make the case, not adopting/playing into their jargon) does win out.

The five most important decisions to take before...

mike7 — Fri, 18 May 2012 01:09:44 +0100

Joiner. I think you are taking too narrow a view of what is meant by 'eco' or 'energy efficient'. In fact. I'm surprised you object - I had thought that perhaps it was such an obvious and uncontentious point that it wasn't worth making.

You haven't by any chance built a place 10 miles up a track etc., have you?

The five most important decisions to take before...

Joiner — Fri, 18 May 2012 07:42:34 +0100

Well, Mike, we've had the lengthy discussions here about what constitutes "eco", "energy efficient", "green", or even "sustainable", and whilst a majority view has emerged it hasn't actually morphed into anything like consensus, even given the subtle shift of the forum towards more high-tech 'solutions'.

And, no, I haven't built a place 10 miles up a track.

Surely you've picked up on the fact that, here, it's possible to be guilty of a sin of commission by NOT doing something?

The five most important decisions to take before...

WillInAberdeen — Fri, 18 May 2012 09:51:26 +0100

I'm (a lot less than ten miles) up a track, off the bus route, nowhere near the shops, school, doctor, home help, post office, friends, judo class...

As well as the transport (which agree is significant) this means its not on the mains gas. I'm just realising that off-gas-grid heating options make a big difference to the CO2 emissions of heating/DHW, and the running cost hence the EPC rating. Or more upfront costs for heat pumps / biomass etc.

Irritatingly, there are houses a mile down the lane that are on the gas mains...

The five most important decisions to take before...

Cerisy — Fri, 18 May 2012 10:53:55 +0100

Do I admit to being an Architect or just hide away behind Cerisy? Guys - horses for courses - my cousin is an engineer who designs huge pipe installations in massive oil refineries and I wouldn't ask him to advise on a domestic installation. Similarly when I worked for Whitbread Inns as a Property Manager we got rid of the architects designing the pub interiors / extensions - bleeding useless, give me a pub designer any day! They did as they were told!
I'm an architect but I know I'm not brilliant at fancy design, I'm a nuts and bolts architect. Layouts, details, maintenance, services, etc, get me excited. We are always told to research the background to any builder we are considering - the same applies to any consultant. Find out what gets them excited and so long as it is what you have in mind and not some ego trip then you have half a chance!! Bon chance mon amis!!

The five most important decisions to take before...

Joiner — Fri, 18 May 2012 11:05:14 +0100

Big discussion about architects yonks ago on ebuild (which at the time was overwhelmingly about self-build - in fact still purports to be) and the impression I got was that Architectural Technicians are more likely to go with what their customers want and technically on a par with fully-qualified architects, who appear to have acquired a reputation for being up their own asses somewhat, which is a shame because I'm sure there are some obliging ones out there somewhere.

The five most important decisions to take before...

JSHarris — Fri, 18 May 2012 12:08:50 +0100

I think you may be right about the approach from some architectural technicians, Dave. I spoke to the one who designed the original house that had PP for our plot and he certainly seemed the sort of person I could work with. Unfortunately he's retired, now.

One problem seems to be that architectural technicians have a low (read non-existent in this area) web presence, so when you go looking all you find are some of the arty farty sites of architects (or at least that was my experience when doing a local area search).

I can understand architects wanting to showcase their grander work, but if you're a self-builder looking for a one off house on a modest budget then it's hard to see through all the gloss and get an idea as to whether a practice would be worth you taking the time to talk to or not.

The five most important decisions to take before...

joe90 — Fri, 18 May 2012 12:15:22 +0100

Perhaps its like builders, the good ones dont need to advertise/have websites, they get all their work throu word of mouth!

The five most important decisions to take before...

djh — Fri, 18 May 2012 13:30:14 +0100

One thing I found useful when looking for architects was the PH designer database. Finding local qualified designers limited the search space. At least they have shown some interest in low-energy design.

http://www.passivhausplaner.eu/englisch/planersuche.php

And yes, architects' sites are generally dreadful. Arty, unusable designs; presumably they employ graphics consultants but without employing competent technical consultants.

The five most important decisions to take before...

Joiner — Fri, 18 May 2012 14:14:20 +0100

Had a little furtle around and came up with (trying to keep it within Jeremy's reach, but other such sites are available)...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/oct/14/weekendmagazine.lifeandhealth

...which mentions our very own Keith Hall, so wonder why he's not entered the discussion?

The five most important decisions to take before...

SteamyTea — Sun, 20 May 2012 07:29:13 +0100

Posted By: JSHarrisUnfortunately he's retired, now.

So are you Jeremy. Take him to the pub, lament the loss of the good old days, get drunk on beer with twigs in it, thump the table and then start to design the house. Either that of join the Silver Surfers down here!
Think I am going to give up work again in the next week or two

The five most important decisions to take before...

Joiner — Sun, 20 May 2012 09:01:15 +0100

One can be semi-retired = Still doing a bit on the side.

Detached retired = Just working on your own place.

Terraced retired = EVERYBODY wants you to do jobs for them now that you're not charging as much!

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Sun, 20 May 2012 09:57:56 +0100

Go on - Flats retired, Sheltered home retired, Nursing home retired, Hospice retired ... and on beyond

The five most important decisions to take before...

fostertom — Sun, 20 May 2012 10:08:29 +0100

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