Green Building Forum - How much PV has the UK installed to date?

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

RobinB — Tue, 15 May 2012 12:32:19 +0100

Anyone know? thanks
RobinB

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

DamonHD — Tue, 15 May 2012 12:54:31 +0100

Looks at various Ofgem/DECC charts/reports, eg:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/local_auth/interactive/domestic_solar/index.html

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/energy_stats/source/fits/fits.aspx

Rgds

Damon

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

ted — Tue, 15 May 2012 16:28:36 +0100

I make it about 1.3 GW.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

windy lamb — Tue, 15 May 2012 17:31:32 +0100

I said it was one big roof!

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

RobinB — Tue, 15 May 2012 17:44:55 +0100

Thanks for the answers

Compared to Drax, our biggest power station, which Wikepedia says has a generating capacity of 3,960 megawatts and provides about 7% of the United Kingdom's electricity supply that doesn't seem too bad.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

DamonHD — Tue, 15 May 2012 18:02:29 +0100

Well, except that the capacity factor of DRAX is probably >80% and of PV <15% (yes, I don't like using capacity factor) and that makes the GWh/year look a lot less good. I think that we should be aiming for >20GWp of PV, ASAP.

Rgds

Damon

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Tue, 15 May 2012 19:32:04 +0100

Posted By: DamonHDI think that we should be aiming for >20GWp of PV, ASAP.

Just read the consultation paper, I think the government want the same as that way they will not have to do any administration.
Personally I like that idea, and getting rid of generation payments and all other nonsenses that artificially skew the marketplace.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

RobinB — Tue, 15 May 2012 20:04:21 +0100

Freely admit I am a bit ignorant when it comes to big numbers. I was wondering how close the PV installed had come to replacing a power station. Thinking we could do with the government feeling a bit more positive about PV rather than dwelling on the FITS payments. More = better.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

DamonHD — Tue, 15 May 2012 20:34:10 +0100

When the sun is out, 1GW+ of PV is a big power station, like the nuke Sizewell B. Its average is the equivalent of a smallish gas turbine, but by happy coincidence humans are more active in daytime, so PV is more useful than that average suggests.

Rgds

Damon

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

Megacycles — Tue, 15 May 2012 21:28:43 +0100

And most PV generates close to point of use so significantly reduces transmission losses which I think are around 10%.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

DamonHD — Tue, 15 May 2012 21:33:00 +0100

The biggest chunk of losses is in distribution, and close to 5% typically in the UK I believe. Transmission losses on average ~2%. But if PV in the south avoids a long trek from the north where much of the generation is, you could be saving more.

Rgds

Damon

My notes say:

# Estimated losses (0--1, 0 means no loss) in transmission and distribution.
# This affects (inflates) the actual effective intensity as seen by a domestic consumer.
intensity.loss.transmission=0.02
# Originally 7%, but according to Annette, and James of DECC, 2011/09/14,
# "distribution [only] losses averaging 5%, ranging from 3.7% for Yorkshire area
& 8% for Scottish Hydro)".
intensity.loss.distribution=0.05

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

Gavin_A — Wed, 16 May 2012 00:19:01 +0100

Posted By: DamonHDWhen the sun is out, 1GW+ of PV is a big power station, like the nuke Sizewell B. Its average is the equivalent of a smallish gas turbine, but by happy coincidence humans are more active in daytime, so PV is more useful than that average suggests.

Rgds

Damon

IIRC the capacity factor of most UK nukes has been around 30% over the last few years with the amount of breakdowns etc (figure may be a little out of date).

Similarly most of the coal plants that haven't got scrubbers, will increasingly be having capacity factors fairly similar to PV as we approach 2015.

Obviously PV can't have a capacity factor anywhere close to new nuclear / coal / gas, but it's not replacing the new stuff, it's replacing the old knackered stuff where the capacity factors will be more similar. Anyway, I'm sure you get the point I'm attempting to make.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

DamonHD — Wed, 16 May 2012 06:31:18 +0100

I'm not knocking PV, really I'm not, I'm just suggesting that a straight nameplate-capacity comparison against demand-callable generation is not necessarily that useful.

Rgds

Damon

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Wed, 16 May 2012 07:04:01 +0100

Have to distinguish between installed capacity and generation

So Installed Capacity is in kW (or MW)
Generation is in kWh (or MWh)

Makes a difference as a PV system down here is worth more than one up in Scotland for the same installed capacity.

Comparing that to a traditional method of generation becomes difficult as traditional generation is often used for different purposes, be that base load, balancing, peak load only.
Then you have the issues of integrating into a national grid, who should have priority and what should the criteria be. Should it be price or cost?

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

fostertom — Wed, 16 May 2012 10:07:06 +0100

Posted By: Gavin_AObviously PV can't have a capacity factor anywhere close to new nuclear / coal / gas

What's the capacity factor of PV + wind put together - quite gd I'd have thought, as they both tend to fill ea others' hole.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Wed, 16 May 2012 17:17:02 +0100

Posted By: fostertomWhat's the capacity factor of PV + wind put together - quite gd I'd have thought, as they both tend to fill ea others' hole

Not really realistic to combine the two as they are not comparing like for like with respect to time.

Solar generation has little to do with windpseed and turbine generation has little to do with light intensity (or lack of it).

What you have to look at is seasonal generation potential and then see how well they match together. Then look at hourly generation and look at how well those two match.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

Gavin_A — Wed, 16 May 2012 18:46:30 +0100

Posted By: DamonHDI'm not knocking PV, really I'm not, I'm just suggesting that a straight nameplate-capacity comparison against demand-callable generation is not necessarily that useful.

Rgds

Damon

I didn't think you were, I was just pointing out that it's all a lot different when you compare PV with the plant it's actually replacing rather than actual new nukes / coal etc.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

fostertom — Wed, 16 May 2012 21:18:40 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaWhat you have to look at is seasonal generation potential and then see how well they match together. Then look at hourly generation and look at how well those two match.

That was my question!

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Wed, 16 May 2012 21:19:42 +0100

Posted By: fostertomThat was my question!

The answer then is covariance

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 09:52:35 +0100

Just doing a tally on this and I get 1.6Gw of PV under 50kW.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/weekly-solar-pv-installation-and-capacity-based-on-registration-date

Does anyone know where I would get figures for the upto date installed capacity of>50kW installations?

Cheers

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 13:36:11 +0100

Found it - 2GWp!

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208570/renewables.pdf

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

ted — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 17:22:14 +0100

The figure is 1.966 GWp from Table 6.1 of renewables.pdf - and that is all solar not just over 50kW.

Also make sure you are comparing like for like periods when using different reports. The spreadsheet is to 30th June but the report is to Q1 2013 so only includes data to the end of March.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:43:54 +0100

Thanks

I meant total PV = 2GWp (the report summary rounded up a smudge).

Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.

2 ~10MW farms are proposed round here. One passed planning and the other in planning.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 09:31:33 +0100

Posted By: jms452Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.

It is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated. Still a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid.
Shame it seems to be planning that is holding it all up rather than financing, operating.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:41:48 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaIt is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated.

Indeed - but for a given technology the energy generated is proportional to the peak capacity unless the quality of installations has dropped.

locally the PV seems to go through planning fairly quickly with a low tens of letters against and no appeals. The windfarm on the other hand got about 200 representations against and is still in planning after over a year despite costing customers half the subsidy (of the PV).

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:45:27 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaStill a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid

On average/total-generated you are totally right.

But at the moment PV is probably exceeding 5% of the demand

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

renewablejohn — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:51:25 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTea
Posted By: jms452Pretty good progress really from 1.3GWp little over a year ago.
It is the peak installed capacity not the energy generated. Still a long way to go before it makes a significant impact on the grid.
Shame it seems to be planning that is holding it all up rather than financing, operating.

On sunny days can already see a dip in power generation although with a significant amount being embedded it is difficult to put numbers on the actual solar generation. Pity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jamesingram — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 13:26:37 +0100

re. PV generated relative to export and installed capacity , just been a year since I fitted my own export monitoring meter.
My 4kWp system , total year generation 3925.6 kWh , exported 3051.4kWh so around 78% exported

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

SteamyTea — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 15:18:42 +0100

Posted By: renewablejohnOn sunny days can already see a dip in power generation although with a significant amount being embedded it is difficult to put numbers on the actual solar generation.

Where can we see that data please?

Posted By: renewablejohnPity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.

Yes it is, but I tend to work on 9% of installed capacity.

Posted By: jamesingramtotal year generation 3925.6 kWh , exported 3051.4kWh so around 78% exported

You need to plug your van in when your out at work

How much PV has the UK installed to date?

jms452 — Sat, 06 Jul 2013 16:23:01 +0100

renewablejohn might be referring to this:

http://www.carboncommentary.com/2013/06/07/3090

Not totally rigorous but interesting.

Posted By: renewablejohnPity we don't have a generation prediction meter like Germany.

This could be a good niche website if you could get the lat/long, orientation, roof pitch and peak capacity data for each installation and then wrap in the weather. Its all at DECC but I have't seem it in a spread sheet yet...