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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: jms452Its all at DECC but I have't seem it in a spread sheet yet...
    Nor has BRE yet, but they told me that DECC has several PV checking projects going at moment.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2013
     
    I just run some stats test on our weekly grid variation, If you look at demand and compare it to hours of daylight and temperature there is no significant difference, shame you cant get the effects of 2GB of PV out of the data.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    How are you trying to detect the effect?

    It strikes me as next to impossible to do conclusively
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    Was looking at the demand variations over the last three years to see if grid supplied was significantly down in the summer. Trouble is that demand is down just because it is warmer. And down because we have greater hours of daylight. And we are in a recession. Also at 1 twentieth of our summer demand it is on the limit of significance testing. Shame as it would be useful to know as we could work out a useful price for solar then.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    The total energy generated is 'real' (well people a being paid for it so there are checks, audit trails etc.) so a price can be put on that.

    So at the moment >1.5 GW is being generated, it's just a question of if it is being used by owners shifting their own demand (or with an immersun etc.). I doubt that there is a significant demand shift at the moment as its pretty hard to use 25kWh* a day (even with an immersun).

    *25kWh/day is an estimate for daily production 4kWp system at the moment!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    Yes, and I was just interested to see if there was a difference in grid demand because of the extra distributed generation, but the NG 5 minute data is too crude. May be possible at the lowest level to spot a difference, but probably not at the town level. I suspect that there is not much demand shifting in houses with PV fitted this time of year. Every house I went to when I worked for a PV company tended to use electricity during the day anyway. One customer even told me how 'useless' and expensive E7 was. I pointed out that she had her 300lt hot water cylinder on all the time and she was using separate electric showers instead of using the hot water she had already paid for. She also did her washing in the mornings so she could 'get it on the line before noon to get the afternoon sun'.
    Would be interesting to see how many people have demand shifted and stuck to it. Not everyone is like us.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    whens the next solar eclipse :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2013
     
    Not such a silly way to test it. Shall have a look, think it is a while off for the UK.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    9:30 on the 20th March 2015 (close to equinox) will be the day, shall we take a punt on the weather :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    9:30am isn't too bad (~80% of max) and wiki says 'a large partial eclipse across the UK, greater than 80% everywhere'.

    So a transient drop of about 60% - its a date!

    :cool:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    See you there, I usually use a wielding mask:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    Welding goggles, etc, can be OK depending on the type. It's a matter of which types cut out near infrared or UV or something. Wrong types feel OK but can allow permanent harm. Serious research and care recommended.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2013
     
    Alright, had my lenses changed for nice clear acrylic ones with no UV filtering, can see all sorts of things now.
    I used the black glass one that I used for arc wielding, probably why I needed my cataracts done, along with growing up in the tropics, working with sunbeds and then a UV curing plastic.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jul/26/summer-solar-power-photovoltaic-panels

    'There are now over 450,000 solar installations, almost all on household roofs, which together have a capacity of 2.7GW. On a sunny day solar power is able to generate around 2% of UK demand over a 24-hour period. But because solar panels generate electricity in peak daylight hours, this is the equivalent of around 6% of all electricity needed in Britain between 10am and 5pm.'

    I can't see and source for this (and I've checked DUKES) but if the UK has installed 700MW of PV in the last three months it is impressive.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013 edited
     
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/weekly-solar-pv-installation-and-capacity-based-on-registration-date

    Total installed capacity 451,476 kWp

    Said it before I think, the trends look too similar for my liking.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Isn't that sub 50kW? If so I think so the article could just about be correct.

    I know there are three ~10MWp solar parks proposed within 5 miles of us now so utility scale does seem to be accelerating!

    If the graph was installed capacity rather than no of installations it wouldn't look so bad.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Still looks dodgy to me
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013 edited
     
    Total 0-50kW capacity installed per week.

    Its not great but the rate isn't as bad as it has been just after a fit rate drop in the past.

    edit: graph y axis should read kW
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013 edited
     
    The thing that worries me about the DECC data is that there seems to be a very linear relationship between both the number of installation or the installed capacity of installation.
    If I run a Student T-Test on their numbers with the hypothesis that the numbers are right, with the null hypothesis that they are wrong (fudged if you like) then you get a p-Values of between 0.0000015922 and 0.0000000002. As this is less than 0.05 for all 3 installations sizes, then I conclude that the numbers are wrong (fudged).
    It is possible clearer if charted, looks like a mirror image and a bit of y-axis translation.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaThe thing that worries me about the DECC data is that there seems to be a very linear relationship between both the number of installation or the installed capacity of installation


    They are in bands and installed in large numbers so the law of averages comes in. I'm not sure I understand why a linear relationship between the number of installations and the installed capacity wouldn't be expected.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Well it show that for every MW of 0-4 kWp installed there is a close relationship to the other two banding. They hardly vary at all.
    About 50-65:1 a year ago and now 47-57:1

    The Student T-Test is all about checking means and how much a mean can vary within bounds (so is quite good for this sort of analysis).

    Somehow I just don't think that for say every 1MW of domestic PV there is somewhere between 0.016 and 0.02 MW of commercial.
    I would have expected a non linear relationship with the domestic de-accelerating and the commercial accelerating. There is a slight acceleration on the bigger stuff, but not statistically significant.
    Tempted to e-mail them to get clarification.
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say there ST, but the percentage of the total installed capacity out of the 0-50kWp systems that's in the 10-50kWp band has risen from 11% in early 2012 to 18% now.

    So there's been a pretty significant change in the proportion of the market that's in that band vs the domestic systems.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013 edited
     
    The point I am making is that, and you can see it on the charts, for any given week the fraction of 4-10 kW and 10-50 kW when compared to the 0-4kW is consistent. So if domestic installs go up, then the other 2 do, if domestic installs go down, the others go down.
    Does that not strike you as odd?
    Why should these very different markets be linked in this way?
    Is there any reason why sales/installs in the domestic market should have any influence on the smaller commercial market.
    I know that some domestic installers can fit a 4 kW system in half a day, but I don't know of any 50 kW systems fitted as quick.
    Just seems a bit odd that all systems installed and all installed capacity tracks each other so well.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    Could it be because tariffs and unit prices also track irrespective of the range? I've never thought it was odd that there was always a peak, across all ranges, when a tariff drop was imminent.

    (BTW there is surely something wrong with John's graph of yesterday, as it shows 100,000 MW installed in one week. Is the y axis kW rather than MW?)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    The tarrif change causing a spike is not that much of a surprise on the domestic side, but on the larger stuff I find it is. Not as if a 50 kW project is sold and fitted in a few days. These are much longer projects usually and the FITs review is done at short notice (though at least we now know when it is).
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    Tariff changes are announced 2 months ahead. But if people have plans they will always try to fit them in before a deadline rather than just after, so the 2 weeks (say) of post-tariff change planned installs will be brought forwards to meet the deadline. Hence the peak.

    For example, most people would be currently planning to meet the 30th September deadline as we won't know until next week if there will be a tariff drop from 1st October. There can't really be anyone planning to install in the first week of October. If there is no tariff drop announced next week then that deadline disappears and everyone will start using 31st December as the next installation deadline.

    Now that the threatened EU PV import duty seems to have disappeared that no longer represents a separate price increase deadline.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    Conegy have gone into receivership. That should help stabilise prices. Going to call DECC on Monday and ask more about the figures.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    Posted By: tedBTW there is surely something wrong with John's graph of yesterday, as it shows 100,000 MW installed in one week. Is the y axis kW rather than MW


    :shamed:

    It should indeed read kW!

    What do you recon about the Guardian's figure for total installs of 2.7GW? if that's correct my next installed capacity graph might me in MW/week
    • CommentAuthorPaul_B
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013 edited
     
    The output of the Solar farm at Hoo is reported weekly, this is a 999 panel installation with a capacity of 249.75kWp. Since the project has been Crowdfunded the top weekly output was 11,082 KWh during the week 29/04/13 - 05/05/13. The last couple of weeks with extra hours and extra heat have been around 10,000 kWh - https://www.abundancegeneration.com/projects/#!/42048/updates
   
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