Green Building Forum - Treatment for a damp room Mon, 15 Jun 2026 13:27:21 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146110#Comment_146110 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146110#Comment_146110 Tue, 15 May 2012 22:16:38 +0100 beelbeebub
It's not strictly a Green Building issue, but as there seems to be a god deal of expertise here it would be good to get some second opinions.

So the background.

I rent out a house on a steep slope. Due to the slope the house has a garage and "utility" along the downslope side, under the main floor slab. These spaces were created when the house was built in order to support the house above, so they are essentially "basement" type spaces. They were not built with a damp course or (on the retaining wall side) any damp proofing.

The tenant has (against our advice) been using the "utility" as a study type room (desk, books etc). The room has no windows, a small air brick and one (external door).

After a plumbing leak some years ago we installed a cheap "office" carpet at the tenant's request, his reasoning being to protect the concrete floor of the room which had had some tanking slurry applied (again in an act of good will to the tenant)

Recently there was another leak from the plumbing system (the exact circumstances are murky). Approx 1 bucket or so of water soaked into the carpet (the room is approx 3m x 4m)

The tenant had all his stuff removed (insurance job).

The carpet has been drying out over the last month, not helped by the fact the tenant tends not to open the door.

I was going to pop a dehumidifier in for the next week just to finish off the drying process.

When I was there 1 week ago, the walls and ceiling were fine, with no sign of mould or dampness). The carpet was mainly touch dry although in the corner closes to the leak it would leave a damp mark on your trousers if you knelt down. There were one or two small (about the size of a pea) "furry" things where I assume a crumb of sandwich or other organic matter had moulded over.

In my assessment a vacuum and a few days with the door open would see the place back to "utility" standard. The tenant wants the place upgraded to a full study but that's another tale.

The tenant wants (although he phrases it as "advises") the following work done (lifted from his email)

- The carpet is a vapour barrier. It is also effected by mould and spores. The carpet should be removed, placed in an airtight plastic bag and incinerated, as it is a health hazard. this should occur post swab samples collection.
Prior to any de-humidification they advise taking swab samples from the carpet and walls ceiling etc.

- All walls ceiling and exposed floor should be sprayed with an anti spore solution by means of a spray mechanism. The room then requires to rest whilst the process tales place.

- Once the spores have been killed the door should be opened to fresh air which will allow many air changes per hour. At this stage fans should be introduced for a two to three hour period. with the door open, assisting air changes.

- After this treatment spore samples may be taken and passed on to a laboratory for analysis.

- The next step would be post sample analysis is received to introduce axial fans and dehumidifiers plus a heat source with a closed door. Until the room has a low relative humidity and the walls floor and ceiling test out at an acceptable low relative humidity.

- If you are unable to carry out the above works and tests the appointed contractor appointed by Aviva can do so on my behalf and on charge it to you accordingly.

- Please be aware that the spore samples and analysis must be carried out by an ISO certified company, using appropriately trained operators with accreditation.

- I have been advised to tell you it would be dangerous and a complete violation of HSE regulations for you to do otherwise.


Does that seem a little excessive? To me it does, what does the voice of GBF think?]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146115#Comment_146115 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146115#Comment_146115 Tue, 15 May 2012 23:51:40 +0100 bampton what sort of contract do you have?
is there any stipulation about use of any particular space or designation of spaces within the house?
can you serve notice and have done with it - reverting to your original plan?
i would also seek professional (legal) advice in the meantime to cover yourself - and get a second (professional) opinion on these 'growths']]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146121#Comment_146121 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146121#Comment_146121 Wed, 16 May 2012 07:17:42 +0100 Joiner
Do you have that in writing?]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146123#Comment_146123 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146123#Comment_146123 Wed, 16 May 2012 07:27:34 +0100 JSHarris
Legally, I believe that knowingly allowing a non-habitable room to be used for habitable purposes raises a couple of issues. The first would be safety, specifically fire safety and the provision of an alternative means of exit, in accordance with Part B of the Building Regs. The second would be insurance and liability related; are you adequately protected as the landlord if you knowingly allow a non-habitable room to be used in this way? Arguably the tenant is using the room for an inappropriate purpose, one that could place himself and you in hot water should there be a fire or other incident.

The stuff about mould spore testing is simply daft, as the air all around us is full of mould spores, it's how moulds propagate. It's a pointless test, and one that is likely to give a false positive anyway, plus I know of no bit of legislation that requires it after a small leak incident like this. My mother had a bad flood years ago (whole ground floor of the house) and there was no mould testing undertaken. The insurers contractors removed all the floor coverings, removed the plaster on the lower part of all the walls and installed big dehumidifiers for a few weeks. Dryness of all the surfaces was checked before re-plastering and laying new flooring with a moisture meter, that's all. I believe this to be standard practice, as in general moulds need organic material and moisture to survive, so don't thrive on dry concrete and plaster.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146129#Comment_146129 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146129#Comment_146129 Wed, 16 May 2012 08:38:43 +0100 nigel Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146130#Comment_146130 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146130#Comment_146130 Wed, 16 May 2012 08:44:22 +0100 CWatters
All that stuff about mould removal will probably be straight from some standard(?) letter Aviva have sent the tennant. It will be to cover the insurance company against any future claims for mould damage. You may need to consult your own insurance company to see if it covers that work. They might propose something simpler but they should reach agreement with Aviva that what has been done is sufficient.

It doesn't sound as if the room was build as a habitable room under the Building Regs. As such it should not be used for anything other than storage. An office/study/games room is classed as a habitable room. The tennant originally rented the house on some basis (what did you tell him when you showed him around?) but by allowing him to continue to use it as a habitable room, and in particular renewing the lease on that new basis, he might have gained rights, potentially putting you in a difficult position.

I'd be tempted to have 30 mins free with a solicitor. They might suggest writing to him along the lines of...

"It has recently come to my attention that you have been using the basement as a study, however this room must not be used for that purpose as it does not meet the Building Regulations for a "habitable room". In particular, but not limited to, those sections dealing with escape from fire. The house was rented to you on the basis that this room was not habitable. Had the room been habitable you would have advertised it as an additional bedroom and charged a higher rent accordingly".

It might be time to consider converting it to a habitable room but if there is no tanking or window you could be looking at quite a major exercise.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146131#Comment_146131 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146131#Comment_146131 Wed, 16 May 2012 08:45:29 +0100 CWatters Posted By: nigelI would issue a section 21 notice on the tenant.

A tad harsh.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146132#Comment_146132 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146132#Comment_146132 Wed, 16 May 2012 08:46:20 +0100 owlman
Do you have that in writing?

Ditto Joiner, thats my take too. If so tell them to take a running jump.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146135#Comment_146135 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146135#Comment_146135 Wed, 16 May 2012 08:57:07 +0100 beelbeebub
that is what I believe happened, we are now tightening our procedures to prevent a re-occurrence.

S21 is a tad harsh (we have never in over 30 years issued one) but in this case he has moved from awkward (which we can deal with, it's our job to be landlords not to like our tenants) to active threat.

Consider: The first leak in the room resulted in a claim against us for loss of use and electricity for drying out (which we did not advise or authorise) equal to the rent for the entire property for the time the room was out of action.

In his insurance claim he inflated the time out of action from 6 months to 9months

He claimed for items of work we had carried out and paid for

He repeatedly threatens to take us to court.

He has caused annoyance to almost every other tenant near by - including shouting at their guests, telling couriers that there are no houses further along the road (resulting in mis-delivered packages)

He regularly makes demands of us that we consider unreasonable e.g.
calling on a bank holiday to demand a tree surgeon be called as a tree had fallen across his rear drive and was blocking his car in. When I went over the "tree" was a branch that could be dragged by one man and his car was not parked around the back but around the front (i.e. not blocked in). The following day our regular gardener disposed of it in 30mins with a hand saw.

We also have a strong suspicion that he is causing the floods by fiddling with pressure relief valves (which he has a particular mania for). We have analysed the system and tested the valves an they do not activate or even leak at any pressure achievable by the system except in a permanent fault condition i.e. one that would be evident hen we investigated.

So all in I think S21 is appropriate.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146140#Comment_146140 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146140#Comment_146140 Wed, 16 May 2012 09:19:05 +0100 JSHarris
The nice thing about an S.21 is that, as I understand it, you are under no obligation to give the tenant a reason for giving notice to quit. The downside is that, from the sound of it, the tenant may take retaliatory action by causing further damage, which may then prove difficult to seek redress for. It might be an idea to prepare for this eventuality before giving him notice, perhaps by undertaking a survey and inspection of the property to record the current condition in case he chooses to cause damage.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146159#Comment_146159 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146159#Comment_146159 Wed, 16 May 2012 10:44:45 +0100 nigel Posted By: CWatters
Posted By: nigelI would issue a section 21 notice on the tenant.


A tad harsh.

Not really, I have had many tenants and nearly all of them good. I treat them well and in return they are good to me but if I had one like that he would be out the door as soon as could arrange it.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146160#Comment_146160 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146160#Comment_146160 Wed, 16 May 2012 11:04:27 +0100 Cerisy Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146182#Comment_146182 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146182#Comment_146182 Wed, 16 May 2012 15:57:33 +0100 beelbeebub
I would need to wear an overall and mask with a close HEPA filter. The advice from my Doctor and Chem-dry is to take precautions as the spores can be very dangerous. If you enter the room please keep the door closed and wear the same protection set out above, as our rear kitchen window is often open in fine weather.

Bear in mind that the last time I was there with the plumber he insisted on being present and sat on a camp chair with a notepad for 3 hours solid... And smoked 4 fags in the 3 hours.

Perception of risk and all that]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146184#Comment_146184 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146184#Comment_146184 Wed, 16 May 2012 16:02:21 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146218#Comment_146218 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146218#Comment_146218 Wed, 16 May 2012 22:52:30 +0100 windy lamb He's just talking rubbish and looks like he's in the first stages of making some spurious claim against you. I would say it is essential that you confirm AGAIN to him in writing that the "utility" room is not a habitable space and is only for storage and usage of white goods appliances. I bet his next move will be to Environmental Health Housing team with a complaint. If you don't make it clear that this room is not a habitable room then you don't what some over zealous EHO to serve an improvement notice to put all sorts of up grades in.

If you are in the landlord business you will, at some stage, get a bad tenant and you'll be lucky to get possession without the house being trashed. I'd serve notice, BUT DO EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK - you don't want EH Dept. prosecuting you for harassment!
JSH's point about taking photos is very good. This could be as part of your preliminary survey for the improvements he wants!!!]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146228#Comment_146228 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146228#Comment_146228 Thu, 17 May 2012 09:49:02 +0100 Joiner
It looked as if he'd had a row with his girlfriend because three doors had been kicked and punched through, the stair handrail torn off the wall and all the cords in the bottom sash of the windows broken, I worked out by his having raised them and then slammed them back down so that the weights had kept on travelling and then snapped back - hell of a force to break the pre-tensioned nylon cords I'd replaced 18 months earlier!

When the landlord was showing me those jobs I asked him if he was intending to replace the shower that had been completely dismantled (not smashed, dismantled) and left in a heap behind the door. He hadn't even seen that bit. Luckily, the shower itself was salvageable, but the enclosure had to be replaced.

Oh, and it also cost him £250 to have the carpets cleaned.

I didn't ask him how much it had cost him to have all the locks changed because the guy had walked off with the keys.

I said that at least he was justified in hanging on to the deposit... Errr.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146234#Comment_146234 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146234#Comment_146234 Thu, 17 May 2012 12:15:22 +0100 windy lamb Like any business, you get good and bad customers.]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146235#Comment_146235 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146235#Comment_146235 Thu, 17 May 2012 12:28:18 +0100 gustyturbine
By the way, I would get that loon out ASAP. Swiftly folloked by a size10. :tooth:]]> Treatment for a damp room https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146253#Comment_146253 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9079&Focus=146253#Comment_146253 Thu, 17 May 2012 16:36:48 +0100 CWatters
Why do the PRV discharge inside the house? That's probably also against regs.

I would be tempted to padlock the filling loop valve so it can't be left open. Might save another flood should the tennant "accidentally" bump the PRV when he's moving out.]]>