Home  5  Books  5  Magazines  5  News  5  GreenPro  5  HelpDesk  5  Your Cart  5  Register  5  Green Living Forum
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories

This month's favourite choices





Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    When I had the neighbour over for a chat about our proposed loft conversion and ground floor extension he said he'd had mail in the post advising him of our planning application and advising him that he should appoint them as surveyor to ensure that he doesn't inadvertently agree to something and then end up with a beam through his wall. And that I'd have to pay for the surveyor.

    I thought you only get the surveyors in if you have a dispute?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    I think that you should advise the neighbour NOT to use whatever firm resorts that that form of high-pressure scare tactics, and indeed maybe could forward that letter on to the OFT and/or the appropriate professional body as an example of sharp/unprofessional practice that should be censured.

    As to the substantive question, I can only say that I would take advice to try to make sure that I did properly look after the neighbour's interests, and it's not impossible I suppose to jointly engage the professionals to make sure that the job goes well without enriching lawyers unnecessarily...

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    I agree with Damon. Sounds like a business desperate for work that's scanning the planning applications on the LA website and then using high pressure selling.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012 edited
     
    Volunteering an exchange of letters (or rather a letter you draw up, signed by both) is a gd idea. Undertakes to put right any damage caused by the works, but excludes any damage caused otherwise/at other time, by whomever; agrees to both release to the other, on request, all photos/notes taken both before and after, and other evidence.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    Thanks guys.

    Could I write up a party wall award or get one written up and offer this before providing written notice? In principle he's happy with the proposals. He just rightly wants to be sure he's covered if anything goes wrong.

    We've got neighbours either side. What sort of money are we talking about if it comes down to surveyors?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    Thanks Tom, I posted my last post before I'd read yours.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012
     
    There doesn't appear to be any incentive for the neighbour to agree on the basis of a letter from us undertaking to right any damage etc. because he doesn't incur any costs by getting surveyors involved.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2012 edited
     
    The Party Wall Act may not even apply to your loft conversion/extension... Read the guide...

    http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/partywall

    If it does apply you only need to pay for their surveyor if

    a) they won't agree to the work or
    b) they fail to respond to the notification (which is best done in person over a cup of tea).

    Be careful about showing them the guide. It uses the word "Award" which they might assume to mean "compensation". In practice the "award" is most likely to be instructions to you. Money will only be payable if your work causes some sort of loss or expense on their part. For example if the work causes their plaster to crack you might have to pay for repairs. Ideally take photos of their house before you start so that there is no doubt about pre-existing issues/damage. Perhaps tell them the photos are so they can prove you caused any damage :-)

    By the way there is no penalty for failing to comply with the Party Wall Act. I believe the neighbour would have to take out an injunction to get work stopped.
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2012
     
    if it's anything like my neighbours out of the blue party wall letter, it's worded as a "we protect your interests, your neighbour could damage your property and you have no protection, appoint us at no cost to you "they charge £165/hour for every task including travelling (and they will most likely not be local), answering the phone, opening a letter, writing a letter, with a large minimum fee for every trivial task.

    Once the neighbour signs the form to appointed them (technically, they can't do this until/if you have served a notice on them) they will harass you to serve a notice on the neighbour using their forms, and for you to appoint them as your surveyor

    The small print in the appointment form says that by appointing them - even through the neighbour has appointed the same, you are not appointing them as an "agreed surveyor" so you appoint them twice and rack up 2 x £165/hour in fees. They probably then appoint a third surveyor to handle any disagreements - guess who picks up the bill for this too.

    There is one company that seems famous for using this as a tactic

    I managed my rebuild without needing to serve a party wall notice, but if you do I strongly suggest that your neighbour uses ANYONE other than the cold-calling brigade.. if a party wall act notice is required, encourage them to pick a local reputable firm and use them as an "agreed" surveyor..
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 28th 2012 edited
     
    Thanks for everyone's advice. I received some costs from a party wall surveyor today. We're potentially up for £5000, 10% of our budget. :sad:

    We're seriously considering trying to design the party walls out of the project now. I've just sent off an email to the engineer to see what he thinks.

    Here's part of what he kindly wrote:

    I have had a quick look through the drawings and I can see that you are proposing to extend the party wall up both sides to form a rooftop extension and to extend the party wall back into the garden on both sides to form a single storey extension. These aspects will exercise rights under the Act as you have correctly surmised and I imagine that there may be other structural elements to the works which will be notifiable such as creating foundations possibly deeper than the existing and cutting pockets in the party walls for steels etc.

    I should firstly advise that you do not have an automatic right to create a new party wall in the garden. I think it is the best solution when extending to propose to create a new party wall. The neighbour can in due course make use of it but would have to pay back half the construction costs at that time. This would be beneficial to all parties both in terms of maximising space and cost. However, if the neighbours do not consent to the construction of the party wall, the wall will have to be built entirely on your side of the boundary except projecting footings.

    If you are proposing to commence works on 22 August, about now is appropriate timing for service of notices. The minimum statutory Notice period for Party Structure Notices is two months.

    I am afraid that there are firms of Surveyors who use the Planning Application lists to send out touting emails and letters. This is not in my view the way to proceed and I very much doubt the neighbours would consider appointing them if they had to pay the fee. My suggestion in this instance would be to encourage the neighbours to follow the Agreed Surveyor route. I am quite happy and confident to act in that capacity. Ultimately, the Adjoining Owners may choose their own Surveyor and the reasonable costs incurred will be your responsibility.

    I presume that you have or will be appointing an Engineer. I will need to see the structural proposals before serving Notice. Before I can put Awards in place I shall need details of the works which are proposed under the Act. In particular the sensitive areas will be breaking through the Adjoining Owner’s roof and producing a new weatherproof junction at that point and access into the adjoining gardens to construct the new party wall if indeed they consent. If they do not consent I will still be able to provide access under the Act but the wall will have to be entirely on your side except for any projecting foundations.

    On the basis of the drawings you have sent and assuming there is one owner either side upon whom Notice has to be served I would be prepared to offer a fixed fee quotation in the sum of £1,750 plus VAT and out of pocket expenses to carry out all duties up to the point that Awards are put in place both sides. Hopefully very little input will be required after that apart from getting the Adjoining Owners’ Surveyors to discharge the Awards. That will be charged at my hourly rate which is £150 plus VAT or £90 plus VAT if my assistant deals with the matter.

    You will be responsible for the fees incurred by the Adjoining Owners’ Surveyors. Typically the fees are likely to be in the region of £1,000 - £1,500 plus VAT per Award and that would include for the final inspection. Some central London practices could be more than. If the neighbour agrees to my selection as the Agreed Surveyor then there are no Adjoining Owner’s Surveyor’s fees to meet but I will have a certain amount of ongoing responsibility to visit the works to check on matters such as access, setting out the position of the party wall and checking off the Schedules of Condition at completion. Those additional duties could perhaps be a further £1,000 - £1,200 plus VAT.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2012
     
    I need another quote. Can anyone recommend a party wall surveyor in NW London? Or a website where we could find one?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2012 edited
     
    I see no reason why you can't draft your own agreement if the neighbour is happy.

    Perhaps see this thread, although the project is somewhst different...

    http://www.justanswer.com/uk-property-law/4z34e-below-please-find-draft-party-wall-award-drafted.html

    also

    http://www.partywalladvice.com/2010/01/27/where-can-i-find-a-draft-party-wall-agreement/

    You or your builder should have site insurance that covers damage to neighbours property. Ask the builder for a copy and check it's still valid.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2012
     
    Thanks for everyone's advice.

    The important thing here is that we have two neighbours and if we need to serve notice for any reason (which we do) then we're better off appointing a surveyor and trying to go down the "agreed surveyor" route.

    The reason being, if one or both neighbours don't respond in 14 days to our notice then we'd have to pay for whoever they appoint as surveyors anyway.

    So the best way to control costs is to either design out the party wall matters, so you don't have to serve notice, or get the neighbour's agreement to use an 'agreed surveyor'.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2012
     
    A friend of mine just got a letter from his neighbour asking him to sign a statement stating that he was happy for them to work on the boundary and a party wall without any protection or liability for his wall or its foundations! or any temporary hoardings/fences.

    Followed by a pressure visit asking why he said no!

    He would have agreed a way forward with them amicably and sensibly but they went off saying that they would sell up,

    the notice (letter) came just three weeks before the proposed start date too -- I have full photographic record of everything.
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2012
     
    I used a party wall notice generator to do mine, then went around with a camera and took loads of pics. Get both parties to signs a brief note (dated) saying that the attached pics (both parties sign the backs of both copies too) this is an accurate depiction of the wall on such-and-such a date.

    If you're neighbours are reasonable, then no-problem. The notice tells them their rights under the party wall act.

    Can you design out party wall stuff entirely? Might be tricky - particularly if you have an extension, as footings near to boundary are covered too...
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press