Green Building Forum - In my town Mon, 15 Jun 2026 10:24:08 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149306#Comment_149306 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149306#Comment_149306 Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:37:30 +0100 tony
One large wind turbine, no hydro, some heat pumps, vast majority of electricity from fossil fuels, gas and oil prices rising fast.
Hybrid cars and busses, one electric car, less free parking,
Loads of wood burners, some larger wood and biomass installations in schools, businesses etc
Uptake of solar pv widespread but still only a tiny proportion.
Better insulation regulations for new buildings but this is not translating into as built results, poor air tightness,
Existing housing stock is poorly insulated, plenty of loft insulation going on, some cavity wall insulation, no floor insulation, no draught proofing or air sealing. Increase in energy poverty.
Waste recycling greatly improved
More interest in fruit and vegetable growing


What can we realistically expect to see by 2020?

No more wind, lots more solar pv, may be hydro on the river, the grid itself will be greener
We will see more hybrid busses and cars, more electric cars, probably more cycling hopefully more car sharing and park and rides. Petrol and diesel will be very expensive.
The vast majority of electricity will still be generated from fossil fuels, gas and oil prices will be rising faster still and shortages of gas and oil will be seen.
New build will slowly improve in line with CSH nothing dramatic
The bulk of the existing housing stock will still be poorly insulated, draughty; energy hogging and even more people will be in energy poverty. We will see virtually no uptake of the Green deal. There will be an increase of insulation levels in roofs, some external and internal insulation wall insulation will be seen but this will only scratch the surface of what is needed, also we will see more draught proofing but we are unlikely to see any floor insulation.
We will see Smart Metering and consequent load shifting. (no overall saving of energy)
Waste recycling continuing to improve, more energy generated from waste.
We will see increased use of wood and biomass but also fully justified increasing resistance to its use and a widespread degradation in air quality that will become a much bigger problem.
We will see more examples of low energy projects, although district heating has been mooted I do not think that we will see this apart from possibly in high rise flats and these probably would be better demolished in any case.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149310#Comment_149310 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149310#Comment_149310 Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:24:25 +0100 SteamyTea In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149347#Comment_149347 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149347#Comment_149347 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:55:50 +0100 windy lamb People are not going to conserve energy and resources unless they have too. Some people care but most don't (my smart phone is more important than your Mountain Gorilla) . Put a weekly/monthly/annual limit on electricity, gas, water, petrol, food etc for each individual and if you use it all, then tough - we'll soon learn not to waste so much. That's never going to happen so we'll just tinker at the edges (hybrid cars, recycling household waste etc) until it's too late - a bit later than 2020 though!:cry:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149364#Comment_149364 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149364#Comment_149364 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:07:02 +0100 Joiner http://www.teqs.net/

:bigsmile:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149365#Comment_149365 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149365#Comment_149365 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:11:00 +0100 Joiner http://www.dtqs.org/DTQS_context.htm

Long discussion about its pros and cons somewhere on the GBF.

Yes, here... http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6835]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149377#Comment_149377 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149377#Comment_149377 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:42:37 +0100 Seret Posted By: windy lambI thought Hybrid vehicles were expensive to build, expensive to maintain and hugely wasteful in terms of natural resources (battery construction etc) - better to keep a Ford Fiesta going for 30 years.

Can't be that expensive to build, or they wouldn't be successful in the market against conventional powertains. I own a Prius, and haven't found it any more expensive to maintain simply because nothing has gone wrong with the engine. If you're having to do anything much to the engine of a modern Japanese car before 100,000 miles or so then you're pretty unlucky IMO (and it's covered by the warranty anyway if you bought new). I've not heard or read anything to suggest the hybrid powertrain is less reliable than a conventional one. There are a lot of Priuses that have put in a lot of miles now, they've passed the test IMO. As for the batteries, they get recycled at EOL. I'd like to know more about that myself, but there's not a lot of info forthcoming from Toyota.

My back of napkin calculations suggest that assuming worst-case for all the unknowns a hybrid should pay off the embodied energy of it's battery in about 15,000 miles.

Hybrids aren't a solution at all, they're just staving off the inevitable. Some manufacturers are getting good efficiency improvements out of the ICE without going hybrid, which is great. Will be interesting to see where we end up at in 20 years time.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149379#Comment_149379 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149379#Comment_149379 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:55:53 +0100 jms452
In the last year we have had EWI on the solid wall properties and PV on the ones with filled cavities.

I found it rather inspiring to see just how many houses can be done in such a short space of time when there is a coherent effort.

Remarkably no noticeable publicity!]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149381#Comment_149381 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149381#Comment_149381 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:01:43 +0100 windy lamb I've still got my first car bought in 1981 (£300), when it was 21 years old! Me thinks a Prius or any other hybrid ain't going to be around that long. And I still get 45 miles to the gallon!
PS it's not a Ford Fiesta.:cool:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149382#Comment_149382 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149382#Comment_149382 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 14:32:20 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: windy lambPS it's not a Ford Fiesta
What is it then?

Posted By: SeretCan't be that expensive to build, or they wouldn't be successful in the market against conventional powertains.

All depends how much of the manufacturing costs has been pushed over to marketing. Cars are pretty cheap to build, it is the rest that costs the money, dealer network, after sales service, warranty claims, shipping, import duties, advertising...]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149397#Comment_149397 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149397#Comment_149397 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:50:10 +0100 Seret Posted By: windy lambSecret,
I've still got my first car bought in 1981 (£300), when it was 21 years old! Me thinks a Prius or any other hybrid ain't going to be around that long. And I still get 45 miles to the gallon!
PS it's not a Ford Fiesta.https:///forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/cool.gif" alt=":cool:" title=":cool:" >

Probably not many at all no. But no fewer than any other car made recently IMO.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149486#Comment_149486 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149486#Comment_149486 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:13:21 +0100 windy lamb Nothing wrong with a Prius anyway, I just think that simple things are often best; Bacon sandwich, Mini, Mini skirt for that matter, but I'm straying off subject.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149488#Comment_149488 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149488#Comment_149488 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:22:49 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: windy lambbut I'm straying off subject.
So is my mind now. I have had 3 Mini's. Not wanting to go back to one now.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149491#Comment_149491 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149491#Comment_149491 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:28:44 +0100 Joiner

Steamy in frigging mini skirt!! :shocked:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149496#Comment_149496 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149496#Comment_149496 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:40:14 +0100 windy lamb Especially exiting a Mini!]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149499#Comment_149499 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149499#Comment_149499 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:40:57 +0100 DamonHD
Nothing less than a flowing gown and a Rolls for Steamy to keep his dignity. Well, and a few personality changes, but there's only so much that the NHS can afford.

Rgds

Damon]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149502#Comment_149502 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149502#Comment_149502 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:22:40 +0100 Joiner

But he can take it. :flowers:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149508#Comment_149508 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149508#Comment_149508 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:24:33 +0100 SteamyTea ]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149513#Comment_149513 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149513#Comment_149513 Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:43:27 +0100 Joiner On which note I'm off to my bed.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149527#Comment_149527 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149527#Comment_149527 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:19:31 +0100 renewablejohn In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149530#Comment_149530 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149530#Comment_149530 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:25:04 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: renewablejohn2.5MW for a population of 2500.
That is 24 kWh/day (assuming it is consistent). About half world energy use and about a 12th of the UKs. Could run my house it though, even in winter, just.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149535#Comment_149535 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149535#Comment_149535 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:55:19 +0100 renewablejohn Posted By: SteamyTea
Posted By: renewablejohn2.5MW for a population of 2500.

That is 24 kWh/day (assuming it is consistent). About half world energy use and about a 12th of the UKs. Could run my house it though, even in winter, just.

Well its double my daily electrical usage so others have no excuse.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149537#Comment_149537 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149537#Comment_149537 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:30:48 +0100 Joiner In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149540#Comment_149540 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149540#Comment_149540 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:44:40 +0100 Seret Posted By: SteamyTea
That is 24 kWh/day (assuming it is consistent). About half world energy use and about a 12th of the UKs..

Are you talking about electricity, or total energy consumption?]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149541#Comment_149541 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149541#Comment_149541 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:59:59 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: SeretAre you talking about electricity, or total energy consumption?
My total and electrical at home are one of the same.
Energy is Energy, the entropy may be different.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149543#Comment_149543 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149543#Comment_149543 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:07:58 +0100 Joiner ]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149547#Comment_149547 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149547#Comment_149547 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:48:40 +0100 Seret Posted By: SteamyTea
My total and electrical at home are one of the same.


The reason I ask is that 24kWh/person/day is well under 1/12th of the UK's total per capita energy consumption and way, way above the average electricity consumption. Not that 2.5MW of boilerplate will generate that much anyway. Maybe about 8kWh, which would be nearly enough for UK average electricity use if not used for heating.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149548#Comment_149548 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149548#Comment_149548 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 12:06:04 +0100 SteamyTea As odd as it may seem, we are heading for another boom in electrical distribution and use, though doubt if many of us on here will see it.

Anyone up for the 48 kWh Challenge :wink:]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149550#Comment_149550 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149550#Comment_149550 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 12:53:42 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: SteamyTeaElectrical generation is, at the moment, the only practical and affordable way to generate low emissions energy.
There's also solar thermal.]]> In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149578#Comment_149578 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149578#Comment_149578 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 22:10:05 +0100 SteamyTea In my town https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149583#Comment_149583 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9232&Focus=149583#Comment_149583 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 22:48:54 +0100 renewablejohn Posted By: JoinerIn my case, that's just electricity because that's what John was talking about. Unless he's found a turbine that will produce gas.http://1.2.3.9/bmi/www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title=":wink:" >

Yes only electric as I am self sufficient for heating cooking and DHW using biomass.

Ed

Solar thermal has a great future pity DECC have no idea of its potential. My solar thermal CHP plant was rejected for being to sophisticated.

Steamy

Might be more portable then you think if my efforts with Hunslet come to fruition.]]>