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Renewable Energy: VAWT - Vertical Axis Wind Turbines

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012 edited
     
    Very little discussion about these machines recently, so to start the turbine turning after the prompt from Steamy Tea on another thread...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MQaT9EbMDQ

    :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    I think I was very lucky the day I filmed this, hardly seen it spinning since.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsjsQWffJ0Y&feature=plcp
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012 edited
     
    There's a lot of discussion about VAWTs at fieldlines.com where I moderate, and though many of us would like to see them as serious contenders to HAWTs (horizontal axis wind turbines) and I'd personally enjoy a pretty one as 'lawn art', they simply seem not to be up to much.

    And urban areas are generally crap for usable wind power.

    Indeed, I suspect that the MotorWind clever HAWT that I have at home, that shares some of the simplicity of a VAWT (no second axis of rotation), does as well as any VAWT would, and it scarcely registers alongside my PV.

    http://www.earth.org.uk/wind-power-pilot-autumn-2007-MotorWind.html

    http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/mechanoids/_more2007/_more12/turbine-MotorWind-multirotor-multigang-HAWT-arrival-assembly-and-erection-1-DHD.avi

    http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/mechanoids/_more2007/_more12/turbine-MotorWind-multirotor-multigang-HAWT-arrival-assembly-and-erection-2-DHD.avi

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    Wake me up when somebody documents actual useful output from a VAWT. I'm sure some people are getting something worthwhile but the ratio of hand-waving to numbers in this area is becoming tedious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    The hand-waving may indeed be *the* useful power input to the VAWTs.

    I think that they do work in some cases, eg for power generation for telemetry in windy dark places, but do not allow one to ignore the laws of physics (such as Betz) however pretty.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    There's a couple of VAWTs outside the Council Offices in Aberystwyth, they look quite pretty but don't seems to do an awful lot else.
    Using the MCS figures for my location it would take 99 years for the listed VAWT to break even - 6 years for a Gaia. That seems to answer any questions.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    There were a couple in the Tesco car park near the one at South Crofty, notice that they have gone. Though they did seem to rotate a lot more than the Hartlands one. Mind you the 15 kW Proven at the EA office does not spin much either :sad:
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2012
     
    No point bothering then as nothing seems to have changed since the subject got its last hearing. :cry:
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Seems the EA spent a lot of tax payers money on Provens - not sure they should have been spending money on such high risk ventures. Their Proven 15 outside the Llanelli office doesn't do much - think how many Newts that money could have saved!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Posted By: windy lambthink how many Newts that money could have saved!

    None, if your thinking of Great Crested, as they do not pay the price. Seem to be unable to identify them correctly in some cases as well.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-17338527
  11.  
    Windy lamb,
    I am with you 100% with the Aberystwyth VAWT's. I am sure I saw a bird nesting on one last week!
    Wind is great in the correct position. Not at any cost to tick a box. Go for PV if you must go for anything that is deemed green. Turbines in the wrong position just add to the anti wind case,
    Gusty.
  12.  
    Hi,
    There was some discussion around the thread Skyrota - Vertical Axis Wind Turbine which had been used in a Grand Designs. All came to tears I recall.

    Cheers
    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Indeed, Mike, it's here... http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=6458

    (And I love Cheryl Cole really!)
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Steamy - With regard to that BBC article on the newts- Yeh, how many newts got run over before they "discovered" the colony? Begs the question; if the newts are so valuable then why wasn't the road closed forever to all traffic not just to the resurfacing vehicles.
    So why couldn't a newt man walk along the road before the scarifier etc and pick up all those hundreds of newts? Wonder how many Zebra crossings they'll have?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Depends if they find any zebras wandering around, I suppose, though training them to cross at the right place, or indeed press the buttons if there's an upgrade to PELICANs...

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Whenever I am in a pub, I always empty half a packed of Cheese and Onion crisps out the window. Why?
    It keeps tigers away.

    More serious note about the GCN, they are rare in parts of Europe, but very common here. Unfortunately there is a blanket bad about killing them or destroying their habitat. Seems a bad bit of legislation, but there you go. I think the Iberian Lynx has the same protection, but never heard of anything not being built here because of it.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    Funny you should mention Iberian Lynx, had it not been for them I would have built my workshop closer to my boundary fence.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    The Lynx effect? (Also has you fighting off screaming hordes of groupies, at least while your missus ain't looking, according to the marketing...)

    Rgds

    Damon
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2012
     
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2012
     
    Interesting video on VAWT farm density research from Caltech.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc4GRaAyE9c

    http://dabiri.caltech.edu/research/wind-energy.html

    …higher power density, but says that all the ones on the market at the moment are fancy looking things to stick in front of supermarkets for a little green wash. Good video tho'.
    • CommentAuthorSteveZ
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012
     
    Thanks for the link, Tim, very interesting experiment by CalTech. I hope the theory of using the vortices applies in the real world , then Cornwall might become home to some small VAWT farms and we can lose our gigantic HAWTs. The Windspire used in the trial looks neat, although I suspect most of the blade area lower down is slowing the top part, rather than helping.

    Another link to the trial, less detail but better sound
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19492-green-machine-wind-farms-make-like-a-fish.html
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012
     
    Posted By: SteveZlose our gigantic HAWTs

    I think most here are not really large as most are old now (0.2 to 2 MW). There does seem to be a lot of small ones going up at the moment (sub 100 kW).
    That one at PZ college should be the largest in the world, would make a real statement and add some real value to the area.
    But then I like them :wink:
    • CommentAuthorSteveZ
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012
     
    Hi ST - have you seen the latest HAWTs at Delabole? Surely there can't be bigger turbines than those! They were installed without a lot of fuss as the site already had smaller turbines there and the new version replaced the old one (4 new replaced 9 old), so watch out as your smaller turbines get older.

    In addition to the new giants, that energy company with the green-sounding name is still trying to get PP to put HAWTs up near Davidstow Airfield, despite being refused several times previously.

    I like the engineering, but I object to the incentives which make them financially irresistable, and I'm not wild about intermittent energy sources in general. OK on a domestic scale, but we need a reliable baseload system (or several) in this country. Now where's that link to Liquid Thorium reactors gone?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2012 edited
     
    Only seen them from a distance, but they are 2 MW ones I think, pretty tiny.
    One of these would have done:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQxp6QTjgJg

    Would have kept my kettle going all day. :bigsmile:

    I agree about the incentives, but that is because we are paranoid about putting a real cost on emissions.

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