Home  5  Books  5  Magazines  5  News  5  GreenPro  5  HelpDesk  5  Your Cart  5  Register  5  Green Living Forum
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



green Building Press Book offers
Free UK delivery on all our books...

 The Woodland House
Just £14.00

The Woodland House

More great priced ecobuilding books here





Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    Good
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    So charge people more and blame the government! Excellent idea. Still maintain that we should be charging less for an initial amount of energy (tackle fuel poverty) and then charge more the more you use rather than the other way round.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    Hence the reason for posting the link...

    "They would also lose discounts for using energy at off-peak times, collecting loyalty points or low consumption rates."
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    But it does not solve the problem of reducing the cost for the low users. Most of these discounts are also not a % of bill, but a fixed amount - they therefore hit the low users more!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    Living costs for low income people/households are to do with low income more than high prices. We should tackle poverty and imbalances in society rather than think that the gas bill is the problem.
    Two moral justice systems:

    Difference Blind Liberalism
    Rule and Exemption

    We have tried the second one for way too long in our tax system and now it just a mess. Time to start again in my opinion.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012 edited
     
    Did anyone take part in the Which bulk buy project...

    https://www.whichbigswitch.co.uk/closed?collectiveID=5

    I signed up, forgot about it and now see it's closed. I don't recall hearing anything else from them.

    The fact that only 12% took the deal sounds like it wasn't that great? or ??
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    There was some woman on the radio saying it was a success, even allowing for the poor uptake. Seems to me that maybe energy prices are not really much of a problem.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaLiving costs for low income people/households are to do with low income more than high prices.
    Well yes and no. The point I think is that those than can afford to be wasteful do (the energy usage map posted a while ago seemed to back that up in my area at least). By lowering the cost of your initial use of energy or the bit you actually need (as defined by not being in fuel poverty) and raising the cost of the 'wasteful' or discretionary use you can affect (effect?) two issues simultaneously.

    Removing these deals impact the low users more than the high users of energy as most are a fixed figure rather than a % discount (IME). What is unforgivable IMHO, is the high tariffs paid by pre-pay consumers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2012
     
    Well yes and no, as you say.
    If we all had the same contract, the same unit price regardless of units used (though still allowing meter rental and usage banding) we could then tackle the root cause of the problem though other means (insulation, education, home generation etc). With our current system that favours the better off because they have the ability to change (if you live in a bedsit you cannot change your energy supplier usually), and are more likely to take a longer term view (as they have more control over their destiny and have the capacity to fit PV, insulation, condensing boiler) the poor will always be at a disadvantage. Help the poor get wealthier and have more control over their lives would benefit everyone, even the rich as the economy as a whole would grow. I did some work for a couple for Barristers many years ago, they complained that their Nanny earned 20k a year, but boasted that they had a decorator that worked cheap for cash. I suggested that they get the decorator to look after their 4 children. I bet both were in fuel poverty.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    If energy was cheaper for low usage then that would help the poor get wealthier. It would also penalise excessive use by the wealthier, actually giving them more incentive to invest some of their wealth into PV, insulation etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    If energy was cheaper, then the poor would fritter their money on other things. This may sound irresponsible, but the very poor, for various reasons, are in the poverty trap and are unable to save/borrow enough to make any difference to their lot.
    Let's say they can save 25%, or between a £5 and £10 a week, would they put that aside for loft insulation, no, they would buy a treat, and not even a good one for that sort of money (actually would probably pay of debt). I have no problem with people treating themselves, though I think their choices may be a bit strange (tacky colourful plastic toys for kids, iPods, 4 inches of extra Flatscreen, Blackberries ...).

    Suppose what the aim is, is important. Is it to make poor people 2% better off (when they need to be at least 50% better off) or to reduce domestic energy use.

    Increasing the price for everyone would certainly incentives the wealthier, though may be swapping energy use for low carbon energy use (a good thing), but not tackling the root cause of high energy use (a bad thing).
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012 edited
     
    "I did some work for a couple of Barristers many years ago, they complained that their Nanny earned 20k a year, but boasted that they had a decorator that worked cheap for cash. I suggested that they get the decorator to look after their 4 children."

    Love it, love it, love it. :rolling:
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaIf energy was cheaper, then the poor would fritter their money on other things.
    That is a huge generalisation and I do not think is a valid argument. All the elderly that cannot afford to heat their house for instance? They fritter their money away do they? Increasing the price for everyone would hit them even harder.

    Increasing the price of energy as folk use MORE (be they poor or rich) would help to equalise the right to *not* live in fuel poverty and that definition is not based on what you actually spend but as a proportion of your available income. It would also incentivise the wealthy to either cut down or invest in renewables. As it stands we are in the usual situation where the wealthy gain (excessive FITS) as they can afford to invest (and in many ways waste more energy) and the poor get poorer.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    The whole system is a mess - I would bet that those struggling on low incomes are the demographic least likely to switch.

    Add this if you are a low user you effectively get a very high per unit cost (i.e. trying to save cash) on energy.

    This is the perfect storm for those on low incomes - Agree that Increasing the price of energy as folk use more is sensible, but just think of the spin certain interests will put on that!
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    On a different but related note I was recently appalled when on a comparision site I noticed the:

    'Only see products available through moneysupermarket.com?' box right at the bottom of the details page
    - default selected as yes.

    When I repeated my search but changing it to a 'no' the top 5 deals had changed (to better deals).

    The default ticked box might as well read:
    'Only show me more the expensive deals which pay commision to this price comparion website'
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press