Green Building Forum - Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? Mon, 15 Jun 2026 04:35:19 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237198#Comment_237198 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237198#Comment_237198 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 22:46:09 +0000 Ed Davies
1) They cease burning stuff until the proposed change has been made.

2) They make the proposed changes before some date, say, the end of the calendar year.

3) Mikeee puts the case in abeyance until that's been determined to work or not.

4) Mikeee won't take further action for past damage, but

5) Mikee reserves the right to restart this case or start a new one if there is further smoke intrusion.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237200#Comment_237200 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237200#Comment_237200 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:28:53 +0000 Gotanewlife Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237201#Comment_237201 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237201#Comment_237201 Wed, 02 Mar 2016 23:37:03 +0000 Gotanewlife
You need to take a more steadfast and confident position with your solicitor - he/she is not a demi-God and has already failed you. He/she works for you. You tell him/her what you want and expect it to be delivered. You are not happy (that you were not given advice not to sign the agreement which would probably fail you and gag you at the same time) and you should say so. There is a lot to digest in the last 20 posts and you need to go through each one slowly. make notes, gather your position into a coherent set of points and refer to these notes during your 'chat'.

And if those notes include any mention of the wood being burned then there is no hope for you.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237204#Comment_237204 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237204#Comment_237204 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 08:05:15 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237205#Comment_237205 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237205#Comment_237205 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 08:27:38 +0000 SteamyTea Everyone on here has told you not to sign this.

They are really offering you nothing other than a chance that it may work. So far everything you have done is worth nothing. You may have well as offered to stick a bit more tube on their chimney years ago 'just to see if it works'.
You may still offer to do that, going to be quicker and cheaper to see if it works.

What seems to have happened to me is that you have got bogged down in all the legal talk and processes and really lost sight of the problem, which is your neighbour causing a nuisance.
You have to get that stopped for good, not delayed, conditionally delayed or anything else.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237207#Comment_237207 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237207#Comment_237207 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 08:51:37 +0000 jules I haven't commented before on this thread, but I thought I'd jump in just to emphasise what everyone else has said. You need to make clear to your solicitor that the objective of this whole action has not been to put a 1.5m pipe on top of their chimney, but to stop the smoke nuisance, and you will only sign something which guarantees that will happen, however it is done.

Ask your solicitor - "what happens if they make the alterations required and they don't stop the smoke?" He'll probably say that if you sign the proposed agreement there will be nothing more that can be done within this action.

So then you say that you want wording in the order that if the proposed remedy doesn't work, no use of the stove is permitted until a remedy is in place which does work. That may get more complicated because then you'll have to agree with the other side who decides whether or not the remedy is working (eg who decides whether smoke levels are "acceptable" and how do they measure that etc etc).

You may also have to go back to the experts to get a better understanding of how confident they are that this proposal will actually work. They may say that it should really be 2m if you want to be absolutely sure.

Finally, I agree that the order must say no use of the stove until the solution is in place.

Good luck...]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237208#Comment_237208 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237208#Comment_237208 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 09:12:03 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237209#Comment_237209 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237209#Comment_237209 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 09:38:16 +0000 HollyBush Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237212#Comment_237212 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237212#Comment_237212 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:16:25 +0000 Mikeee5
What about a clause that says " the products of combustion must be sufficiently dispersed as not to cause a nuisance".

This would be part of the agreement, and if the remedial work is unsuccessful we have the right to restart the court action.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237218#Comment_237218 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237218#Comment_237218 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:22:07 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
1) They cease burning stuff until the proposed change has been made. (easily done as they have gas CH (I think))

2) They make the proposed changes before some date, say 30 days after the agreement is signed (why wait longer, they can ask for longer if they need it)

3) Mikeee puts the case in abeyance until that's been determined to work or not.

4) Mikeee reserves the right to take further action for past damage, (why close this off and depending upon how you feel about damages you could use this as a bargaining point)

5) Mikee reserves the right to restart this case or start a new one if there is further smoke intrusion.

6) Mikee requires one complete heating season without nuisance before any agreement will be signed that the nuisance problem has been solved. (Should give you an easier restart if problems occur next winter)

I don't think planning permission should be an issue. In your neighbours position I would put up the 1,5m pipe and apply for retrospective PP citing that it was necessary due to a health hazard. (Experts opinions as supporting documentation). In all probability by the time the PP came up for decision there would be an indication as to whether the proposed solution has a chance of working or not.

Whilst as was said above courts take a dim view if agreements are not reasonably made, the courts won't expect you to make an agreement if it fails or potentially fails to resolve the issues at hand.

Don't loose sight of the fact that you want the nuisance stopped, what type of wood is burned should not be part of any agreement, any additional background items beyond the main issue of ceasing the nuisance will only serve to confuse and cause unnecessary debate if the nuisance continues but other background items are adhered to. If an agreement contains any quantitative measurements this will generate measurement issues such as who pays and who does what. If you want quantitative measurement then I would suggest the European Standard for air quality as a good starting point. Why should you accept less?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237219#Comment_237219 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237219#Comment_237219 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 11:52:23 +0000 db8000
this type of nuisance is not a "once and for all" so future events can be new causes of action. The Tomlin Order - which will settle the claim entirely save for bringing into effect the terms of the order - should ideally therefore:-

- not limit Mikeee's ability to bring a future claim
- be limited to the settlement of the dispute in the claim and no further.

Wording as simple as "Mr x agrees not to cause a future nuisance to Mikeee" puts the point beyond doubt.

Secondly, it is all well and good everyone shouting "don't sign", "take it to court" but litigation is for many people one of the most stressful things they ever do. It takes over your life, appearing in court and being cross-examined is terrifying and you can lose your house in costs if you don't win.

Thirdly, I seem to remember that Mikeee said his solicitor is being paid by his legal expenses insurer (presumably as part of household cover). He may not have practically a choice of solicitor. His insurance cover will also only go so far - it will not cover him for pursuing a point of principle all the way to court. It is an added complication. The upside though is that he's probably covered for the other side's costs so isn't worried about losing £10ks. The downside is that the insurer is not going to pay for a Rolls-Royce job by the solicitor and there may be an element of "processing" at times.

Lastly, the courts take a very dim view of pursuing things on principle - you get hammered on costs even if you win - if you refuse a reasonable offer. Winners can even end up paying the losers costs.

I think that the most important thing here is for Mikeee to retain the ability to start a new claim if the nuisance recurs.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237229#Comment_237229 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237229#Comment_237229 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:49:01 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237230#Comment_237230 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237230#Comment_237230 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 16:58:33 +0000 SteamyTea Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237234#Comment_237234 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237234#Comment_237234 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:27:00 +0000 gyrogear Posted By: Mikeee5My solicitor is doubtful that they will agree to that. I have requested again that something be added to the order to take into account we would be in a position to start a new claim if the nuisance reoccurs. My solicitor is still saying this is the best we could have hoped for if it had gone to court and there is no need to include further amendments to the Tomlin order.

To me, it sounds like your solicitor is working for your neighbour !

"I have requested again that something be added to the order..."

As stated above by Peter-in-Hungary, "adding sthg to the order" don't enter into it - you need to be producing a COUNTER-proposal

gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237237#Comment_237237 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237237#Comment_237237 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:04:48 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Mikeee5I have instructed my solicitor to request that my neighbours stop using the stove until planning permission is sought and the remedial work is carried out. My solicitor is doubtful that they will agree to that.
Given that 'the experts' have now agreed there is a problem (nuisance) I would have thought that it would be 'unreasonable' for your neighbour to continue with the nuisance until the proposal (by the experts) is put in place.

Because your neighbour has alternative heating I would have thought that a court would grant you an injunction preventing them from using the stove until the proposed change to the chimney was in place, especially as the need for planning permission might extend the time before any change is made.

Put together a counter proposal and instruct your solicitor to request that your neighbours stop using the stove until planning permission is sought and the remedial work is carried out. At the same time tell your solicitor to inform your neighbour that if they do not agree to stop using the stove you will seek an injunction through the court to prevent them using the stove until the proposed solution is in place and can be tested. (After all courts issue injunctions against late night parties and smoke inhalation is a lot more dangerous than noise)]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237240#Comment_237240 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237240#Comment_237240 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:19:36 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Mikeee5My solicitor said that the court will take a view what is realistic and because we are semidetached it would be expected to get some smoke in the neighbouring property.
Why - Its like saying that because you are semi-detached you should expect noise disturbance on a regular basis by loud parties going on until 3 or 4 in the morning.
IMO being in a semi does not mean you have to put up with your neighbours pollution!!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237247#Comment_237247 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237247#Comment_237247 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 22:03:55 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary (quote - 2.8 Flues should be high enough to ensure sufficient draught to clear the products of combustion. The height necessary for this will depend upon the type of the appliance, the height of the building, the type of flue, and the number of bends in it, and an assessment of local wind patterns.)
And your solicitor should ask the Building Control to issue a notice preventing the chimney being used until remedial action has been taken and that the chimney complies with the building regs.

P.S. When your solicitor talks about what the court will expect you to put up with, because you live in a semi, remind him that the chimney fails to comply with building regs. and I doubt that any court would expect you to put up with such a circumstance!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237248#Comment_237248 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237248#Comment_237248 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 22:26:58 +0000 tony Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237249#Comment_237249 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237249#Comment_237249 Thu, 03 Mar 2016 22:49:14 +0000 Gotanewlife
A lot of our advice is pretty meaningless if there is no decent stick behind it. Afterall, does the experts' report jointly (and jointly is important) say
Posted By: Peter_in_Hungarythat the neighbours chimney fails to meet building regs in that it fails to carry away the products of combustion
??]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237254#Comment_237254 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237254#Comment_237254 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 07:40:43 +0000 borpin
By drafting this agreement, I would have thought that there is now an acceptance there is a nuisance so I would be going back to the council and Building Control asking them to deal with the nuisance (whilst other things are going on).

There must be a clear cease and desist in the order until it is demonstrated the nuisance has stopped (i.e. use of the stove does not produce fumes within your property).

I would not have any specific remedies in the order but simply a standard to be met once modifications have been carried out. This standard could be demonstrated by monitoring. Not having specific remedies avoids the problem of the proposed solution not curing the nuisance.

Of course there is nothing to stop you objecting to the planning proposal and if that is denied they will not be able to use the stove at all as it would cause a nuisance (if you get the order right).

YMMV]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237266#Comment_237266 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237266#Comment_237266 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 10:21:43 +0000 Gotanewlife
1/ Preventing use until fixed won't happen.
2/ Agreed monitoring (hence stds to be achieved) won't happen.
3/ Report won't be strong enough to satisfy Building Control that there is a nuisance.
4/ A time by which the flue must be increased won't happen.

Negotiation has to be realistic; as our lawyer db8000 said:
Posted By: db8000the courts take a very dim view of pursuing things on principle
Of course one can ask, as a starting point, maybe, if you want to piss them off.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237269#Comment_237269 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237269#Comment_237269 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 10:48:42 +0000 joe90 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237272#Comment_237272 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237272#Comment_237272 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:58:59 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237278#Comment_237278 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237278#Comment_237278 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 12:50:36 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Mikeee5The Head of Planning and Regultory Services has always said that the performance of the Chimney is a private matter so I doubt they would want to get involved
If your solicitor writes to the the Head of Planning and Regulatory Services complaining that a structure does not comply with the regs and provides evidence (the report) and quotes the relevant regulation I don't see how the authority can ignore the complaint.

Whilst much above has been said about the court taking a dim view when someone fails to negotiate or come to a reasonable compromise or sticks to a principle the same must apply to the neighbour. If pollution is shown by the reports and he refuses to stop the pollution whilst the (proposed) solution is implemented then the court should take a very dim view of this indeed]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237287#Comment_237287 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237287#Comment_237287 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:03:31 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237288#Comment_237288 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237288#Comment_237288 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:11:32 +0000 SteamyTea And if you think that is the case, get onto your insurance company and ask them what to do next.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237289#Comment_237289 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237289#Comment_237289 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:24:03 +0000 renewablejohn
Suggest fitting something like this.

http://smokiusa.com/smoke_zapper]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237290#Comment_237290 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237290#Comment_237290 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:28:36 +0000 joe90 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237291#Comment_237291 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237291#Comment_237291 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:01:07 +0000 Mikeee5 ]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237292#Comment_237292 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=237292#Comment_237292 Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:04:37 +0000 torrent99 Posted By: Mikeee5It's took me 4 years of campaigning to get a 1.5 m tube chucked on top of the stack, I don't think they will stretch to a super sucker 2000:wink:" alt=":wink:" src="https:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" >

Super sucker 2000?!? That's old hat you want the Hyper Sucker 3000 instead! :wink::wink:]]>