Green Building Forum - Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

KB1 — Thu, 12 May 2016 00:26:44 +0100

Martin

Thank you for your input on this - and your concern. The problem with burning wood is that it releases toxins - forget the CO2 for now. Its the carcinogenic microscopic particles that you and your neighbours need to be concerned about. Don't expect the manufacturers or the retailers to give you this information - they are in the business of making money from their product.

I've spent 3 years having to inhale smoke from a Central Boiler - it wouldn't make any difference if the wood was bone dry and there was no visible smoke - if the OWB boiler is burning wood then it is emitting cancer causing particles. Just like cigarettes - only much worse.The best and most authoritative source of information I have found is EHHI in the States. They are knowledgeable professionals with all the relevant qualifications and access to world wide studies on wood burning. Take a look because nobody wants to endanger other peoples lives - or their own. Here's the link: http://ehhi.org

I have a toxicology report for gasification wood burning stoves i.e. OWBs - it is equally valid for any wood burning appliance. I'll gladly post it up here or email it directly to anyone that wants it.
I know its hard to accept after all the propaganda that we have been fed about renewables but burning wood isn't about replacing trees - its about the cancer causing micro-particles they release when burned -that's what we should be worrying about - that is the big issue that no one wants to talk about. Do you have children or grandchildren? - that's another area you need to find about.

Most people are like you Martin - they would never want to harm their neighbours - so please check the resources I have already posted - burning wood is never safe. That's why I'm confidently going to take my County Council to the Courts for their Nonfeasance -the evidence is irrefutable. If we all got together we good have a 'class action' and put all the evidence before the Court for a definitive decision.

I hope others will join the discussion so we can produce the evidence and let people decide for themselves.

By the way - SanFrancisco have introduced a scheme to replace all wood burning stoves with clean heat sources - that's how serious they think the problem is.

Thanks Martin for contributing - it's the only way to get to the truth.

Thanks also to Cleanairforall2 - I'll check out the face book page

Mikee - I hope this is helpful - the more people that engage with the issue the more likely we all are to get EH officers to understand the harmful effects of smoke inhalation.

Kind regards to all,
Karen

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Thu, 12 May 2016 16:25:06 +0100

Posted By: owlman
Posted By: Mikeee5
......................., how it's going to be secured etc? Can't see anything online.

Over a certain height flue manufacturers fitting instructions usually require guy lines. They may have opted to stay just under the critical height, 1.5M doesn't seem much to cure the problem.

Thanks for that Owlman. We're not holding out much hope, unfortunately raising the chimney by 1.5 metres is what my my expert witness has recommended! Will have to see what happens, I'm not sure where we stand if someone throws an objection in !!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

tony — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:20:17 +0100

Presumably they have to stop burning and pay up the compensation.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

renewablejohn — Thu, 12 May 2016 23:29:56 +0100

Mikee

Would it not be a good idea to get all your neighbors to object to the planning application and state what a folly it is because it is not actually solving the problem. Instead they could recommend to the council that the more permanent solution that would cure the problem was one of the filter systems I highlighted earlier. Obviously its not only you that is being affected by your neighbors smoke so the more objections you get the stronger your case to get a more permanent solution.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Fri, 13 May 2016 10:19:04 +0100

Posted By: tonyPresumably they have to stop burning and pay up the compensation.

Not the best of results I'm afraid Tony.

Are the filters readily available in the UK now RenewableJohn?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

tony — Fri, 13 May 2016 12:09:03 +0100

Wouldn't stop burning be a good result?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

renewablejohn — Fri, 13 May 2016 14:35:30 +0100

Posted By: Mikeee5
Posted By: tonyPresumably they have to stop burning and pay up the compensation.

Not the best of results I'm afraid Tony.

Are the filters readily available in the UK now RenewableJohn?

These are the UK agents for the swiss system.

http://www.oekotube.ch/joomla/oekosolve/index.php/en/sales/international/vertrieb-england-en

Not saying there cheap because quality never is but if I was in your shoes I would offer a 50% contribution if it meant a permanent solution and that way they can see your trying to be reasonable rather than that nasty complaining neighbor from next door.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

djh — Fri, 13 May 2016 15:20:06 +0100

Requirements for the installation of the OekoTube micro-dust filter
- A minimum of two metres vertically downward length from the top of the chimney

Not sure whether that fits in?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 13 May 2016 17:32:45 +0100

Posted By: Mikeee5I'm not sure where we stand if someone throws an objection in !!

What about asking for a condition - if the extension to the chimney fails to work i.e. fails to stop the pollution - it must be removed.

This would put you back to todays condition where the fact that a problem exists is now recognised. If the extension remains it will be there to cloud the next solution and potentially confuse further discussions.

Re filters - I would not be in favour of a filter solution because filters only work if they are replaced or maintained at the proper frequency. What are the chances of your neighbour putting up a filter, saying "there job done" and behaving as if it a fit and forget i.e. never touching it again until you have to go back to court because of the pollution. IMO the best solution would be a passive fix, that is one that works without any intervention e.g. a chimney high enough to work !!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

renewablejohn — Fri, 13 May 2016 19:29:23 +0100

Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: Mikeee5I'm not sure where we stand if someone throws an objection in !!

What about asking for a condition - if the extension to the chimney fails to work i.e. fails to stop the pollution - it must be removed.

This would put you back to todays condition where the fact that a problem exists is now recognised. If the extension remains it will be there to cloud the next solution and potentially confuse further discussions.

Re filters - I would not be in favour of a filter solution because filters only work if they are replaced or maintained at the proper frequency. What are the chances of your neighbour putting up a filter, saying "there job done" and behaving as if it a fit and forget i.e. never touching it again until you have to go back to court because of the pollution. IMO the best solution would be a passive fix, that is one that works without any intervention e.g. a chimney high enough to work !!

Thats the reason why I suggested that system as it is not a filter that has to be maintained its electrostatic so so long as its switched on it will work. I suggest Mikee has contol of the on/off switch.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

KB1 — Fri, 13 May 2016 19:57:29 +0100

Have you contacted OFGEM?

- Quote the Consumer Protection Act 1987 - all products must be safe. You are being harmed by the smoke so the Act covers you.

Threaten to take legal action against your LA/EH dept for Nonfeasance - that is a failure to perform a duty which results in harm

Time to get tough - or get cancer. Sorry but when you've been breathing in these toxins for as long as you have Mikee - you and your family really can't afford to waste time looking for a chimney fix. You need an Abatement Order right now.

Good Luck.
Karen

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

renewablejohn — Fri, 13 May 2016 22:28:26 +0100

Posted By: KB1Have you contacted OFGEM?

- Quote the Consumer Protection Act 1987 - all products must be safe. You are being harmed by the smoke so the Act covers you.

Threaten to take legal action against your LA/EH dept for Nonfeasance - that is a failure to perform a duty which results in harm

Time to get tough - or get cancer. Sorry but when you've been breathing in these toxins for as long as you have Mikee - you and your family really can't afford to waste time looking for a chimney fix. You need an Abatement Order right now.

Good Luck.
Karen

KB

I really do think you need to read this thread from start to finish then you would not make such a stupid comment. The regulars on here have supported Mikee with all the ups and downs and still needs our support over the final hurdle. If you have actually dealt with Ofcom like some of us on here do on a regular basis you will realise there a bunch of pen pushing idiots who will do anything for a quiet life. Ofcom with RHI is a different matter as it is very easy for them to stop payments and rescind agreements.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

KB1 — Sat, 14 May 2016 00:57:17 +0100

Renewable John : NOT OFCOM - We aren't talking telephones - You surely mean OFGEM ?

I have read through this thread - and I can see that Mike has had 4 years of getting the run around and unfortunately despite your efforts - he is still inhaling smoke.

I'm not trying to steal your glory renewable john - I am just commenting - it is a public forum - not private territory.

What is disturbing about you is this regular bullying and insulting of contributors - if you don't like the comment - just ignore it. Name calling is out of place here.

Mike is smart enough to judge for himself what may be useful and what is not.

Can you try to be civil?

Kind regards
Karen

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Triassic — Sat, 14 May 2016 06:56:25 +0100

How easy were OFGEM to deal with in your case Karen, sounds like you got their attention and they took action, interested to here your story.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Sat, 14 May 2016 14:29:38 +0100

Here's the proposed solution !!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

renewablejohn — Sat, 14 May 2016 15:13:59 +0100

KB

Who is doing any name calling its not me sending nasty whispers I gathered the words where not intended for me but thats still no way of treating another forum member.

For those that have been members on here a bit longer they would have picked up on the irony of me using Ofcom which you instantly could see was incorrect whereas in your previous post your quoting Ofgem which has absolutely nothing to do with Mikee case as his neighbor is not into power generation from his stove and is not receiving Fits or RHI. His redress for pollution control is either the Environment Agency or Local Authority but we went all through this at the start of the thread.

Sorry if you feel intimidated by the amount of knowledge some of us have on the subject but then some of us deal with it on a daily basis and its not the significant problem that your making it out to be unless like Mikee you end up with an ignorant neighbor for which the solution is normally education and a bit of simple technology.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Sat, 14 May 2016 16:31:08 +0100

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Dessie — Sun, 15 May 2016 18:31:05 +0100

This scandal must not be side-tracked by infighting on this forum. The attitude of EH to people being poisoned in their homes must be publicized,The general public are not aware of the facts.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Dessie — Mon, 16 May 2016 10:31:57 +0100

Good luck to you Karen .Were right behind you .

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Wed, 18 May 2016 17:43:53 +0100

Has anyone got an idea what may happen if objections were put in to the planning department about the appearance of the 1.5 metre tube protruding from the stack?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

tony — Wed, 18 May 2016 18:30:10 +0100

Planners will have guidelines,policies and planning law to follow with or without objections.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:05:34 +0100

Thanks Tony. I'm trying to figure out what may happen if the planning permission was turned down . I know it can go to an appeal but wondered if the end result was no planning, would that mean no use of Stove ! The Tomlin order says they have 8 weeks to alter the chimney but the order has not been filed with the court as yet!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

tony — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:13:12 +0100

Wot!!!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Wed, 18 May 2016 19:50:24 +0100

What will happen if the council say you can't stick it up. Will that automatically mean the smelly tubbies can't use their stove, or does it mean they can still use the stove with a chimney that fails to carry away the products of combustion !

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Triassic — Thu, 19 May 2016 07:27:59 +0100

In my mind "no chimney means no stove", but logic does not appear to apply in this case!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

SimonMF — Thu, 19 May 2016 09:51:54 +0100

Hi

I have read this thread from time to time and there is one thing puzzling me. It is evident that Mikeee neighbour is aware that he or she is causing him and his family a nuisance, a large measure of distress and even bouts of ill health. It seems that the neighbour in question is severely out of pocket due to court action undertaken by Mikeee. The large majority of members of the human race, faced with such protest, would reflect on their behaviour and conclude that because of the hurt he is causing would cease their unnecessary and harmful activity. Indeed this is by far the easiest course of action for this neighbour.

This is the bit I don't get. Why doesn't this guy just give up, insert a gas or electric fire and everyone is happy and he saves money. Why is he persisting?

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

joe90 — Thu, 19 May 2016 09:56:19 +0100

Posted By: TriassicIn my mind "no chimney means no stove", but logic does not appear to apply in this case!

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

SteamyTea — Thu, 19 May 2016 09:59:50 +0100

Because the price he has paid so far is not high enough.
That, and he has been backed into a corner but still think he is right.
In 1984 Welsh coalminers thought it was acceptable to drop concrete paving slabs from bridges onto taxis that were taking miners to work.
It is very easy to convince someone that that are right, regardless of all the evidence to the contrary, but it is even more work to convince someone they are wrong. Just ask any teacher.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

joe90 — Thu, 19 May 2016 10:00:42 +0100

Posted By: SimonMFHi

I have read this thread from time to time and there is one thing puzzling me. It is evident that Mikeee neighbour is aware that he or she is causing him and his family a nuisance, a large measure of distress and even bouts of ill health. It seems that the neighbour in question is severely out of pocket due to court action undertaken by Mikeee. The large majority of members of the human race, faced with such protest, would reflect on their behaviour and conclude that because of the hurt he is causing would cease their unnecessary and harmful activity. Indeed this is by far the easiest course of action for this neighbour.

This is the bit I don't get. Why doesn't this guy just give up, insert a gas or electric fire and everyone is happy and he saves money. Why is he persisting?

I have a neighbour that has objected to our planning permission for a replacement dwelling on every level, he has not won one point but still persists, some people are just not resonable.

Smoke Nuisance â€“ is wood wood?

Mikeee5 — Thu, 19 May 2016 11:00:02 +0100

My neighbours are ignorant. The fumes have been witnessed by an expert witness they employed to make an assessment of the situation. My neighbour has been on my property when smoke and fumes have been cascading over my flat roof former and reaching ground level. My solicitor has written to them again to request they stop using the stove until the remedial work has been carried out yet they still choose to keep chucking the fumes out. We're back to thick smoke and severe fumes, I really don't know what's going to happen if the 1.5 metre tube fails to work!

Good luck with the planning Joe.