Green Building Forum - Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? Mon, 15 Jun 2026 03:01:51 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240919#Comment_240919 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240919#Comment_240919 Thu, 19 May 2016 12:04:33 +0100 Gotanewlife Posted By: Mikeee5I really don't know what's going to happen if the 1.5 metre tube fails to work Well, given that your experts have not said that it 'will' work and that everyone on here believes that it will not work, and hence advised that you shouldn't tie a legal knot giving you nowhere to go when it didn't, I am surprised and sorry to hear you say that.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240921#Comment_240921 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240921#Comment_240921 Thu, 19 May 2016 12:12:56 +0100 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240923#Comment_240923 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240923#Comment_240923 Thu, 19 May 2016 12:20:52 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary
I think you should instruct (don't ask - instruct) your solicitor to go to the relevant authorities to get an abatement order preventing the use of your neighbours stove until such time as the proposed alteration to the chimney is installed and the functioning of the chimney can be tested. The justification for the abatement order is the experts opinion that recommended increasing the chimney height in an attempt to solve the pollution problem. This proves there is a problem and IMO would justify an abatement order until the experts proposal is implemented.

Get the abatement order and of course if the PP for the chimney extension is refused you have the abatement order banning the use of the stove !!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240929#Comment_240929 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240929#Comment_240929 Thu, 19 May 2016 13:19:33 +0100 gyrogear self-whispered By: gyrogear off other page some people are just not resonable

yes, the scientific term is "smoky-old-paths"

cf. https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/how-spot-sociopath

:cool:
gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240955#Comment_240955 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240955#Comment_240955 Thu, 19 May 2016 19:39:14 +0100 Mikeee5
On another note, how will I stand with my complaont to the European Court of Human Rightes if the UK comes out if the EU?

Cheers

Mikeee5]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240958#Comment_240958 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=240958#Comment_240958 Thu, 19 May 2016 20:22:34 +0100 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Mikeee5On another note, how will I stand with my complaont to the European Court of Human Rightes if the UK comes out if the EU?
I understand that the signing the European Convention on Human Rights is a condition of joining the EU, but leaving the EU would not undo that signing. That would have to be a separate act - But one I think the brexit want to achieve.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243243#Comment_243243 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243243#Comment_243243 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:11:23 +0100 Mikeee5

Mikeee5 Cough! Cough!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243244#Comment_243244 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243244#Comment_243244 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:19:26 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThat would have to be a separate actIndeed.

- But one I think the brexit want to achieve.
That's far less obvious. Theresa May wants it but most other politicians, including many Tories, think she's foaming-at-the-mouth nutty on the subject. I doubt there'd be much chance of a Norway or Switzerland solution if that happened.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243252#Comment_243252 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243252#Comment_243252 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:47:19 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: Mikeee5Just had news that the neighbours planning application for the 1.5 metre super scooper has been turned down.Good, one small step in the right direction.

Posted By: Mikeee5It`s a good job my solicitor emailed them last week to request that they stop using the stove until the work has been completed or "planning permission is refused"
Are they going to take any notice of that? Keep your diary going.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243254#Comment_243254 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243254#Comment_243254 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:14:26 +0100 skyewright Posted By: Mikeee5It`s a good job my solicitor emailed them last week to request that they stop using the stove until the work has been completed or "planning permission is refused" !!!

'request that they stop using the stove until the work has been completed' sounds good, but I'm not sure I see the sense of the 'or "planning permission is refused"' bit?

Edit to turn html back on.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243257#Comment_243257 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243257#Comment_243257 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:28:11 +0100 MarkyP Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243258#Comment_243258 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243258#Comment_243258 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:47:52 +0100 Mikeee5
The planning application has been refused because of the industrial appearance of a 1.5 metre metal tube sticking out of the stack in a residential area. It sounds like the planning department will be more lenient if the height of the stack was increased with matching bricks. This is going to need another planning application and the involvement of a structural engineer. The new requirements could be the deciding factor now the cheap option has been refused !! I should imagine to increase the chimney with brick inclusive of working at Height Health and Safety requirements is going to be quite costly !!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243269#Comment_243269 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=243269#Comment_243269 Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:50:47 +0100 CWatters I`ve just had another email from my solicitor and the smelly tubbies have now agreed to stop using the stove for 2 months.

This year they were probably relying on that stove to keep warm in July and August. Is this rain ever going to stop.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249327#Comment_249327 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249327#Comment_249327 Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:44:03 +0000 Mikeee5

We're now on the 5th stay of proceedings. There's been quite a lot of waffling between the neighbours, expert witnesses and solicitors. A decision has now been made to fit 2 courses of bricks and a 900 mm open pot top giving a height of 1080 mm on top of the 500 mm high stack. The agreement is to fit an insulated liner through to the top of the open top pot. This equates to an extended height of 700 mm from the existing flu opening. This is a decrease of 300 mm from the size specified by our expert witness back in February.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249333#Comment_249333 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249333#Comment_249333 Wed, 02 Nov 2016 21:45:51 +0000 tony Are they using the combustion appliance? If this new height flue works, who will determine that? If not what then?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249354#Comment_249354 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249354#Comment_249354 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 07:41:53 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Mikeee - what does your expert say about the reduced hight, and why was it reduced - planning permission issues perhaps?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249364#Comment_249364 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249364#Comment_249364 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 09:40:50 +0000 Mikeee5
Fortunately my neighbours have agreed not to use the stove until the work has been carried out and we have been enjoying clean air around our home for the past few months. Planning permission hasn't been applied for with the revised proposal as yet. This proposal has been put forward by my neighbours and my expert has agreed to their proposals as long as the insulated liner extends to the top of the pot.

Unfortunately it looks like the Tomlin order is a closure to the case , part 1 of the schedule says "The parties agree that the terms set out herein are hereby agreed in full and final settlement of all and any claims between the parties as at the date this order is signed whether or not brought within these proceedings".

Part 2 of the schedule does state that the chimney outlet must be raised by at least 1 metre. I have measured the outlet to be 350 mm from the top of the stack which would equate to a terminal height of 1350 mm. The revised specification of 2 courses of brickwork and a 900 mm pot equates to 1060 mm, so there`s a shortfall of 290 mm.

I`m going to email my legal bod shortly to let him know that I don`t agree with the proposals as there is a shortfall from the original recommendations.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249376#Comment_249376 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249376#Comment_249376 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 10:32:15 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249377#Comment_249377 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249377#Comment_249377 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 10:32:21 +0000 Nick Parsons
Surely what it needs to say is something like:

"The parties agree that the terms set out herein - *Provided that they abate the nuisance* are hereby agreed in full and final settlement of all and any claims between the parties as at the date this order is signed whether or not brought within these proceedings". Your solicitor should surely be helping you to reserve the right to re-start action if the 'agreed' course of action proves to be ineffective.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249385#Comment_249385 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249385#Comment_249385 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 11:42:53 +0000 Mikeee5
I think our expert witness is relying heavily on the removal of the flat top terminal to be the main area of improvement . However , there is a dwelling with a wood burner at the bottom of our street which has an open top pot and the smoke comes down to ground level when they spark up their fire . As it's been said before , wood smoke suffers from inversion problems. I personally don't think it's going to make much difference !]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249398#Comment_249398 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249398#Comment_249398 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 15:42:17 +0000 gyrogear
Posted By: Nick Parsons*Provided that they abate the nuisance*


+1 for that...

Also,

Posted By: Mikeee5He has said that my insurers will close the claim after the Tomlin order has been signed. I'm really not sure where we stand if the alterations do not work


Seems unfair that the insurer should bang out because he has got fed up with it all - how about digging on HERE...

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

Good luck !

gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249420#Comment_249420 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249420#Comment_249420 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 21:34:49 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
1 If you sign the order that ends the case, (which is why the insurers will consider the case closed). By signing the Tomlin order you will be agreeing that all claims up to the date of signing are settled and you can not make ANY claims against your neighbour for ANYTHING prior to the date of signing.

2 If you sign the Tomlin order and your neighbour continues to pollute you with smoke you will have to start the case all over again almost certainly without the help of the insurance company.

3 If the proposed solution to raise the flue output by less than recommended (but scheduled in the Tomlin order) fails to fix the problem and you bring a new case (with your own money) your neighbour will be able to show that he carried out the requirement of the Tomlin order (raised the flue) and you agreed (by signing the Tomlin order) that this resolved your claim you will therefore have a very difficult time persuading anyone that what you agreed to as a FINAL SETTLEMENT to your claim is not final because it does not work. The question will (rightly) immediately be put – Then why did you sign?

IMO you should refuse to sign anything or agree to anything that will limit your case and certainly not sign anything that closes or reduces your claim.

There is now an acceptance that your neighbour is polluting your air by his use of his unsatisfactory chimney. Why should you agree that the case is closed before there is demonstrable proof that the problem has been fixed.

You should be demanding that the stove remains unused until the problem is solved, but within that you will have to accept some use after a material change has been made to the chimney so that tests can be carried out.

You should also be asking your solicitor how he thinks signing the Tomiln order is in your best interest when there is no evidence that the nuisance will stop with the proposal for the chimney modification which falls short (what pun?) of the recommendations of the expert.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249422#Comment_249422 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249422#Comment_249422 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 21:59:30 +0000 gyrogear Posted By: Peter_in_Hungaryand you can not make ANY claims against your neighbour for ANYTHING prior to the date of signing.

apologies, PIH,not wanting to confuse anything, but should this not be, "after the date of signing" ?

gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249429#Comment_249429 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249429#Comment_249429 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 23:07:05 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: gyrogear
Posted By: Peter_in_Hungaryand you can not make ANY claims against your neighbour for ANYTHING prior to the date of signing.


apologies, PIH,not wanting to confuse anything, but should this not be, "after the date of signing" ?

The Tomlin order says

"The parties agree that the terms set out herein are hereby agreed in full and final settlement of all and any claims between the parties as at the date this order is signed whether or not brought within these proceedings".

So once signed you can't claim for any event that was prior to the date of signing even if the event has/had nothing to do with the smoke nuisance.

Events after the signing can be claimed but that would be a new case, which is why IMO it would be so difficult if the order was signed but the smoke nuisance continued.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249430#Comment_249430 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249430#Comment_249430 Thu, 03 Nov 2016 23:09:31 +0000 gyrogear
gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249485#Comment_249485 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249485#Comment_249485 Sat, 05 Nov 2016 00:00:42 +0000 djh Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryYou should also be asking your solicitor how he thinks signing the Tomiln order is in your best interest
I agree entirely with what Peter has said. I think the bit I have quoted deserves emphasis. As I understand it, the solicitor is paid by the insurance company but is acting on your behalf and as such he should be considering your best interests and not those of the insurance company and perhaps needs to be reminded of that.

If he's not acting on your behalf, then maybe it's worth paying him for an hour of his time to act on your behalf to tell you whether his work for the insurance company is in your best interests!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249522#Comment_249522 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249522#Comment_249522 Sat, 05 Nov 2016 15:07:24 +0000 gyrogear Posted By: djhIf he's not acting on your behalf, then maybe it's worth paying him for an hour of his time to act on your behalf to tell you whether his work for the insurance company is in your best interests!

brilliant !

gg]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249614#Comment_249614 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249614#Comment_249614 Tue, 08 Nov 2016 09:31:01 +0000 orangemannot Having avoided (commenting on) this thread for some time.
(i) I find these recent developments "interesting", shall I say.
(ii) Gawd help our already expensive (despite NEVER having claimed) household Insurance premiums, and for the deliberately obtuse I would invite comparisons with Pet Insurance and its widespread abuses by the self-indulgent/delusional owners.

regards
Marcus]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249625#Comment_249625 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249625#Comment_249625 Tue, 08 Nov 2016 11:23:51 +0000 ringi Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249629#Comment_249629 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=249629#Comment_249629 Tue, 08 Nov 2016 12:15:00 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: ringiThe legal cover option on household Insurance is only about £20 a year as their are so few claims.
The legal cover option on household Insurance is only about £20 a year as their are so few claims......that the insurance companies are prepared to support :devil::devil:]]>