Green Building Forum - Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? Mon, 15 Jun 2026 02:58:23 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264388#Comment_264388 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264388#Comment_264388 Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:46:40 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: renewablejohnAs for comments of extractors interfering with the woodstove I thought GBF posters where wiser than that with sealed buildings and woodstoves with external air supplies.
Please don't confuse wood stoves with external air supplies and room sealed wood stoves. External air supply wood stoves can be (probably will be) affected by extractors whereas room sealed wood stoves probably won't be. (until you open the door to reload) It all depends on the negative pressure created by the extractor.

Back to Mikes (the OP) problem, I would expect that putting a filter on the neighbours chimney will make no difference what so ever as evidence as reported here would indicate that the neighbour has no interest in behaving responsibly and so the only solution IMO would be a passive fix i.e. one that works by design without any operational intervention by the owner.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264389#Comment_264389 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264389#Comment_264389 Wed, 03 Jan 2018 21:34:40 +0000 renewablejohn Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary
Posted By: renewablejohnAs for comments of extractors interfering with the woodstove I thought GBF posters where wiser than that with sealed buildings and woodstoves with external air supplies.

Please don't confuse wood stoves with external air supplies and room sealed wood stoves. External air supply wood stoves can be (probably will be) affected by extractors whereas room sealed wood stoves probably won't be. (until you open the door to reload) It all depends on the negative pressure created by the extractor.

Back to Mikes (the OP) problem, I would expect that putting a filter on the neighbours chimney will make no difference what so ever as evidence as reported here would indicate that the neighbour has no interest in behaving responsibly and so the only solution IMO would be a passive fix i.e. one that works by design without any operational intervention by the owner.

Peter

The reason I said wiser was because I thought it was a no go having an extractor in the same room as a woodstove. Certainly with a Dunsley your not allowed to put an extractor in the same room as the woodstove.
As for Mikee I believe your right unless Mikee has control of the filter. Dont think there is a passive fix for someone determined to burn rubbish.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264392#Comment_264392 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264392#Comment_264392 Wed, 03 Jan 2018 23:00:21 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: renewablejohnDont think there is a passive fix for someone determined to burn rubbish.
The passive fix would be a chimney that carried the emissions up and away (OK to dispurse and pollute, diluted, elsewhere - no different to any other stove) and this IMO can only be acheived by increasing the height until the problem is solved - or stop using the stove.


Posted By: renewablejohnThe reason I said wiser was because I thought it was a no go having an extractor in the same room as a woodstove.

Same applies over here, although over here it is not the same room but the same air space and an internal door is not counted as separating the air space]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264873#Comment_264873 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264873#Comment_264873 Sat, 20 Jan 2018 16:18:10 +0000 Mikeee5
I also have a chance to alter the wording of the agreement. Has anyone got any suggestions regarding a Claus in the event the recommendations do not solve the problem? Unfortunately I don't have any other option than to sign the agreement.

Thank you for your continued support.

Mikeee5]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264874#Comment_264874 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264874#Comment_264874 Sat, 20 Jan 2018 19:09:28 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
A structural engineer should pass their opinion in writing, especially if there is any chance of any of the chimney landing on your property. If the chimney looks doubtful I would expect the structural engineer to state that the chimney should be taken down to good brickwork, probably below roof line and rebuilt. I would not be surprised if they also specified a reinforced render to be applied

I would also expect the requirement that the chimney should be lined (if it does not already have one) as the additional height will cause additional cooling (due to extra exposure to cold) and this could cause condensates to precipitate out causing chimney blockage or reduced performance.

If you are forced to sign the agreement you should IMO insist on wording such as

In the event that the proposed extension to the chimney by 1m fails to fully and completely resolve the problem of nuisance emissions from the chimney in question then this agreement will become null and void]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264881#Comment_264881 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264881#Comment_264881 Sun, 21 Jan 2018 01:04:35 +0000 renewablejohn Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264904#Comment_264904 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=264904#Comment_264904 Sun, 21 Jan 2018 17:44:23 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: renewablejohnThink you need to include a clause to state what monitoring device is installed with the proposed chimney and in the event that a pre-determined improvement is not reached then the electrostatic filter will be installed into the new chimney extension again monitored so that you know whether they switch the filter on or not.
I would not want to give them any suggestion of putting up a solution that may work if they switch it on but makes no difference to the problem if the item is switched off or not maintained. (A bit too much like the VW diesel emissions testing for my liking)

IMO what is needed is a chimney that works on its own (or a stove that isn't used)]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265440#Comment_265440 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265440#Comment_265440 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 19:31:30 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265441#Comment_265441 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265441#Comment_265441 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 19:46:46 +0000 Nick Parsons
Yes, it is 'in my neighbours interest to fuel and operate the stove correctly and keep their smoke to an absulute minium.' But an 'absolute minimum' does not necessarily solve your problem.

'My legal bod has confirmed that the next step for them would be to stop using the stove if the alterations fail to solve the problem.'

I guess that's the fail-safe.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265442#Comment_265442 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265442#Comment_265442 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:03:11 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265443#Comment_265443 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265443#Comment_265443 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:47:03 +0000 tony
For goodness sake make very sure that that is written in to the agreement.

I don’t like the vagueness of the language, minimal, how can anyone prove “in line with DEFRA...” , and ‘absolute minimum’ —- what does that mean —- zilch.

I can imagine he would be keen to strart a new case, he is presumably getting paid ... to fail!

I am rooting for a solution but really wish it was cast in stone.

I still think this a landmark case and it should have clear implications for many others in similar predicaments.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265446#Comment_265446 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265446#Comment_265446 Sun, 04 Feb 2018 23:21:12 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary
In addition - how do you determine success or failure of 'the solution' Some measurable standards would need to be included otherwise all you will get is a debate about whether it is a (partial) success or a (partial) failure. For this perhaps get the (average) background figures from your data collection and then a not to be exceeded acceptable %age above that.

Does the 'expert' have any liability for their proposed solution - and would any liability be real or would they just have egg on their face!?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265465#Comment_265465 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265465#Comment_265465 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 15:52:37 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265466#Comment_265466 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265466#Comment_265466 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:45:29 +0000 tony Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265468#Comment_265468 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265468#Comment_265468 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:54:46 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265470#Comment_265470 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265470#Comment_265470 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 17:25:57 +0000 SteamyTea Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265472#Comment_265472 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265472#Comment_265472 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 18:24:20 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265482#Comment_265482 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265482#Comment_265482 Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:40:32 +0000 tony
Even more of a landmark case but I can foresee it being excluded from insurance policies like floors are now.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265514#Comment_265514 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265514#Comment_265514 Tue, 06 Feb 2018 19:52:47 +0000 Mikeee5 Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265523#Comment_265523 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265523#Comment_265523 Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:21:29 +0000 tony Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265608#Comment_265608 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265608#Comment_265608 Thu, 08 Feb 2018 20:19:34 +0000 db8000
KB1 was fun. I missed that first time round. Perhaps its good to ruffle a few feathers occasionally.

The solicitor acts for Mikeee. All his/her professional obligations are to Mikeee and the court. The insurance company will have a separate contract with Mikeee (the policy) which states that it will only cover reasonable actions in relation to the proceedings. If a reasonable solution presents itself, Mikeee must take it or carry on paying himself.

The last thing I wrote back in May 2016 was that the Tomlin Order must enable Mikeee to take further proceedings if the solution (whatever it is) fails. It seems this is the case - and that is normal.

A Tomlin Order is a settlement between the parties that is endorsed by the court. The alternative is a full hearing. That is stressful, almost beyond belief. The Court will expect the parties to try to settle - the court rules are clear on that. Mikeee is not caving in by settling.

Getting a permanent injunction to prevent the neighbour from using the stove at all is unlikely i think, therefore it is right to consider settling with the neighbouring carrying out works that will hopefully (according to experts) solve it.

Nuisance can occur even if something is built entirely to regulation. re-starting a claim should actually be much easier. the paperwork is largely drafted!

Finally this is not a landmark case. it sets no precedent whatsoever in the legal world. a settlement between parties is firstly private and even if it went to a full hearing, a first instance judgment is not a binding precedent.

Dave.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265621#Comment_265621 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265621#Comment_265621 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 06:50:20 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: db8000A Tomlin Order is a settlement between the parties that is endorsed by the court.As it is just between individuals, what happens if one of them move and a new owner comes along. Does that mean the Tomlin Order is void?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265643#Comment_265643 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265643#Comment_265643 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:40:28 +0000 djh Posted By: SteamyTeaAs it is just between individuals
What other possibility is there?]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265644#Comment_265644 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265644#Comment_265644 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:55:55 +0000 db8000
It could be made binding on future owners if it contains a requirement to enter into a deed of restrictive covenant which is then registered at the Land Registry.

The restrictive covenant would state the Owner X covenants not to light fires/ use the stove. It could be not to use the stove unless.... the unless being the remedial action that would make the WBS acceptable.

You would never get a court order binding on successors in that way, so there would be little incentive for Mikeee’s neighbour to agree to that.]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265647#Comment_265647 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265647#Comment_265647 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 17:25:45 +0000 TimSmall Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265670#Comment_265670 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265670#Comment_265670 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 13:26:00 +0000 Mikeee5
Thanks for the information on the Tomlin order Dave, good to see you back on the thread. Interesting point Steamy has made about new neighbours in the future, wouldn't be good if someone moved in and started chucking crap on the fire. That wood put us back to square 1. !!]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265676#Comment_265676 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265676#Comment_265676 Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:57:50 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: Mikeee5Interesting point Steamy has made about new neighbours in the future, wouldn't be good if someone moved in and started chucking crap on the fire.
Surely your neighbour would /wood have to declare the problem to prospective purchasers if the proposal did not fix the problem

Posted By: Mikeee5That wood put us back to square 1. !!
:bigsmile::bigsmile:]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265686#Comment_265686 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=265686#Comment_265686 Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:05:27 +0000 Mikeee5 ]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=268291#Comment_268291 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=268291#Comment_268291 Mon, 14 May 2018 11:07:22 +0100 Mikeee5
Mikeee5
:sad:]]> Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=268292#Comment_268292 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&Focus=268292#Comment_268292 Mon, 14 May 2018 11:30:22 +0100 Mikeee5