The agreements not been signed yet !

self-whispered By: gyrogear off other page some people are just not resonable

yes, the scientific term is "smoky-old-paths"

cf. https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/how-spot-sociopath


gg

Posted By: Mikeee5On another note, how will I stand with my complaont to the European Court of Human Rightes if the UK comes out if the EU?

I understand that the signing the European Convention on Human Rights is a condition of joining the EU, but leaving the EU would not undo that signing. That would have to be a separate act - But one I think the brexit want to achieve.

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThat would have to be a separate act

Indeed.

- But one I think the brexit want to achieve.

That's far less obvious. Theresa May wants it but most other politicians, including many Tories, think she's foaming-at-the-mouth nutty on the subject. I doubt there'd be much chance of a Norway or Switzerland solution if that happened.

Posted By: Mikeee5It`s a good job my solicitor emailed them last week to request that they stop using the stove until the work has been completed or "planning permission is refused" !!!

'request that they stop using the stove until the work has been completed' sounds good, but I'm not sure I see the sense of the 'or "planning permission is refused"' bit?

Edit to turn html back on.

I`ve just had another email from my solicitor and the smelly tubbies have now agreed to stop using the stove for 2 months.

The planning application has been refused because of the industrial appearance of a 1.5 metre metal tube sticking out of the stack in a residential area. It sounds like the planning department will be more lenient if the height of the stack was increased with matching bricks. This is going to need another planning application and the involvement of a structural engineer. The new requirements could be the deciding factor now the cheap option has been refused !! I should imagine to increase the chimney with brick inclusive of working at Height Health and Safety requirements is going to be quite costly !!

November 2016 update.


We're now on the 5th stay of proceedings. There's been quite a lot of waffling between the neighbours, expert witnesses and solicitors. A decision has now been made to fit 2 courses of bricks and a 900 mm open pot top giving a height of 1080 mm on top of the 500 mm high stack. The agreement is to fit an insulated liner through to the top of the open top pot. This equates to an extended height of 700 mm from the existing flu opening. This is a decrease of 300 mm from the size specified by our expert witness back in February.

Whether the new flue hight works, in the first instance is determined by Mikeee using the equipment he already has, after that (if it fails) his expert can support any claims. If it fails then it must be back to court to report the failure.
Mikeee - what does your expert say about the reduced hight, and why was it reduced - planning permission issues perhaps?

Am I in my right to disagree with the proposals even though our expert witness has agreed them?

I think my solicitor is trying to close the case Nick . He has said that my insurers will close the claim after the Tomlin order has been signed. I'm really not sure where we stand if the alterations do not work .

I think our expert witness is relying heavily on the removal of the flat top terminal to be the main area of improvement . However , there is a dwelling with a wood burner at the bottom of our street which has an open top pot and the smoke comes down to ground level when they spark up their fire . As it's been said before , wood smoke suffers from inversion problems. I personally don't think it's going to make much difference !

Mikeee, if I was in your position I would not sign the Tomlin order for a number of reasons,

1 If you sign the order that ends the case, (which is why the insurers will consider the case closed). By signing the Tomlin order you will be agreeing that all claims up to the date of signing are settled and you can not make ANY claims against your neighbour for ANYTHING prior to the date of signing.

2 If you sign the Tomlin order and your neighbour continues to pollute you with smoke you will have to start the case all over again almost certainly without the help of the insurance company.

3 If the proposed solution to raise the flue output by less than recommended (but scheduled in the Tomlin order) fails to fix the problem and you bring a new case (with your own money) your neighbour will be able to show that he carried out the requirement of the Tomlin order (raised the flue) and you agreed (by signing the Tomlin order) that this resolved your claim you will therefore have a very difficult time persuading anyone that what you agreed to as a FINAL SETTLEMENT to your claim is not final because it does not work. The question will (rightly) immediately be put – Then why did you sign?

IMO you should refuse to sign anything or agree to anything that will limit your case and certainly not sign anything that closes or reduces your claim.

There is now an acceptance that your neighbour is polluting your air by his use of his unsatisfactory chimney. Why should you agree that the case is closed before there is demonstrable proof that the problem has been fixed.

You should be demanding that the stove remains unused until the problem is solved, but within that you will have to accept some use after a material change has been made to the chimney so that tests can be carried out.

You should also be asking your solicitor how he thinks signing the Tomiln order is in your best interest when there is no evidence that the nuisance will stop with the proposal for the chimney modification which falls short (what pun?) of the recommendations of the expert.

Posted By: gyrogear

Posted By: Peter_in_Hungaryand you can not make ANY claims against your neighbour for ANYTHING prior to the date of signing.

apologies, PIH,not wanting to confuse anything, but should this not be, "after the date of signing" ?

The Tomlin order says

"The parties agree that the terms set out herein are hereby agreed in full and final settlement of all and any claims between the parties as at the date this order is signed whether or not brought within these proceedings".

So once signed you can't claim for any event that was prior to the date of signing even if the event has/had nothing to do with the smoke nuisance.

Events after the signing can be claimed but that would be a new case, which is why IMO it would be so difficult if the order was signed but the smoke nuisance continued.

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryYou should also be asking your solicitor how he thinks signing the Tomiln order is in your best interest

I agree entirely with what Peter has said. I think the bit I have quoted deserves emphasis. As I understand it, the solicitor is paid by the insurance company but is acting on your behalf and as such he should be considering your best interests and not those of the insurance company and perhaps needs to be reminded of that.

If he's not acting on your behalf, then maybe it's worth paying him for an hour of his time to act on your behalf to tell you whether his work for the insurance company is in your best interests!

Gents,
Having avoided (commenting on) this thread for some time.
(i) I find these recent developments "interesting", shall I say.
(ii) Gawd help our already expensive (despite NEVER having claimed) household Insurance premiums, and for the deliberately obtuse I would invite comparisons with Pet Insurance and its widespread abuses by the self-indulgent/delusional owners.

regards
Marcus

Posted By: ringiThe legal cover option on household Insurance is only about £20 a year as their are so few claims.

The legal cover option on household Insurance is only about £20 a year as their are so few claims......that the insurance companies are prepared to support