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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2012
     
    Is there any kind of insulation out there that can go under foundations?

    In my situation I have a couple of large mass concrete piles (1m square by 2.5m deep) which are holding up a raft slab and a ground floor extension. Is there any way to completely envelope these so as to maximise their potential as thermal stores?
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2012
     
    I don't have a direct answer to this question ... but wonder if it's worth it.

    Wouldn't heat in the Pile try to work upwards mainly?
    If heat is lost to the ground immediately below the pile wouldn't this eventually serve to reduce the temperature gradient between the two ... so there's a "buffer" of sorts at the end of the pile?

    Think there are others on here who could put it more clearly and more technically.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2012
     
    Posted By: MikeRumneyWouldn't heat in the Pile try to work upwards mainly?

    Why would heat work upwards mainly? Are you thinking that “heat rises” or do you have something else in mind?
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2012
     
    Posted By: ShevekIs there any kind of insulation out there that can go under foundations?

    Not as far as I know, except for the foam raft under concrete slab type. With piles there are some things you can do to reduce heat loss:

    - Insulate the sides of the piles, so the heat has to travel all the way to the bottom to 'escape'.
    - Increase the depth of the piles so the heat has to travel further.
    - Decrease the thermal conductance of the piles by changing materials - this can be a little more complicated than it might first seem. You might think that using timber is better than steel, for example, but you need a lot less cross-sectional area of steel so it's not straightforward. Sums need to be done!
    - Insert a thermal break - it might be possible to add one of the proprietary load-bearing thermal break pads at the top of the pile.

    All of these things complicate the build and cost money, so it's best to do a full analysis to see what is worthwhile.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2012
     
    Thanks djh, I've asked my engineer too, I'll let you know what he says. The thermal break idea is interesting, although to maximise the pile as a thermal store you'd want to insert this some way down the pile.

    Do you know much about Claymaster? If the sides of the pile are lined with this is that suitable? Someone in my office was telling me it can collapse and not bounce back though.

    What about additives to the concrete?
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2012
     
    Posted By: ShevekWhat about additives to the concrete?

    You can play games by changing the aggregate to more insulating materials - I think leca and foamed glass are sometimes used, but I'm no expert. But clearly you need a concrete expert to design a mix that is fit for purpose as well as helping the insulation.

    Don't know about the Claymaster but I'd be interested if you do find anything out. We've got clay under our plot.
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2012
     
    Posted By: Ed Davies
    Posted By: MikeRumneyWouldn't heat in the Pile try to work upwards mainly?

    Why would heat work upwards mainly? Are you thinking that “heat rises” or do you have something else in mind?


    I know it's not quite that simple ... see here:

    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9025

    More about gradients and mean temperatures etc etc which make me think it's not that useful to insulate under a pile if there is insulation around it
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