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General: GU10LED vs MR16LED

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2012
     
    I'm about to specify an up/downlighting scheme for the walls of my lounge and need to decide whether to opt for a GU10 mains voltage , or an MR16 low voltage solution.

    As the LED market for neither currently matches the performance of dichroic bulbs (unless I opt for a superexpensive integrated LED solution) my plan is to choose the option which best places me for taking advantage of future technological developments and change bulbs when suitable alternatives (in terms of output and suitably narrow beamwidth) become available.

    Is there a consensus on whether low or mains voltage is leading in these developments? I understand that each has specific wiring requirements, so once installed I’ll be stuck with it!

    I'll be grateful for any comments or factors I need to take into consideration.

    Thanks,

    Dave
  2.  
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2012
     
    I went 12v but the underlying wiring would do for either - it was run in "normal" 1.5 T&E , all back to a central location. All wires terminate on terminal blocks on a DIN rail.

    In that location I have a load of 12v PSU and 12v LED controller units, wired to the terminal blocks. I could, although it would be a nightmare, switch it to 240V by simply removing the 12V side and re-jumpering it to 240V, although I would have to be very very careful - and would only consider it as a very last resort if my arduino controlled "brain" didn't work out as I had hoped

    Fortunaltely (an entire month!) so far so good

    -Steve
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: James Nortonsee here:http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=9273&page=1#Item_26" rel="nofollow" >http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=9273&page=1#Item_26


    I'm using the GU10 equivalent of these. Both work well but have a wider beam angle than the equivalent halogen. This can make them appear dimmer if you compare one LED with one halogen BUT when you have a whole room ful installed the brightness can be comparable or even better than halogen.

    Check the colour. You may prefer warm white to standard daylight for example.
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2012
     
    Thanks everyone,

    Unfortunately for me, I want to achieve bright narrow beamwidths (for brick column lighting) which I understand can currently only be achieved using Halogen MR16s. This appears to give me the following two options:

    1 opt for MR16 Halogen solution, which will provide the desired effect immediate but has a potentially longer wait (possibly infinite) for a high performance LED replacement becoming available.
    2 opt for GU10 solution providing rubbish results and performance initially but providing a far higher chance and shorter wait for affordable LED alternatives to become available.

    Can anyone tell me how much hassle it would be to switch to a GU10 mains voltage solution if a low voltage MR16 option was initially installed?

    thanks.

    Dave
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2012
     
    One of my GU10 LED lamps has a very narrow beam (25 degrees I think), so maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you asserting/assuming that all MR16 / GU10 LED lamps have wide beams?

    Rgds

    Damon
  7.  
    As I read it, it was just these "5050" praised and then damned on the other thread that had the wide beam...

    J
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012
     
    Damon,

    25 degrees is the most narrow beam width I have heard of for an LED lamp. Unfortunately this is still more than twice as wide as the 10 degree beam width lamps I am seeking.

    The only LED up downlight product I have found which can deliver both the brightness of Halogen and a narrow 10 degree beam width is this fitting which contains integral transformers and lenses to create the desired effect:
    http://www.lightgraphix.co.uk/Products/individual.php?ProductName=LD10236

    Unfortunately it's not mass produced and comes with the larcenous price tag of £297! (excluding VAT)
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012
     
    I thought that philips did narrower than that - 15 or even 10 degrees?

    here's a 15 for example

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-GU5-3-White-2700K-Degree/dp/B004DE7A7K/ref=sr_1_47?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1342601190&sr=1-47


    -Steve
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012 edited
     
    Yes, my 25 degree lamp is a Philips too:

    http://www.earth.org.uk/LED-lighting.html#Philips3WEconicGU10

    Rgds

    Damon

    PS. Using Google with:

    GU10 LED "10-degree beam angle"

    (note the quotes)

    brought up this for example:

    http://www.onlinebulbstore.co.uk/products/LED+Light+Bulbs/High+Performance+LEDs/Megaman+LED+Bulbs+-+NEW!/Megaman+GU10+LED+4W/2011916548

    Megaman GU10 LED 4W bulb in Warm White (3000K) or White (4000K) with a 10 degree beam angle. £28-ish.
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012
     
    Thanks for the links.

    Even if I can match the beam widths (and that's debatable from the sound of it) LED retrofits in either GU10 or MR16 formats still can't match halogen.

    The holy grail of low voltage narrow beam width, sparkly high contrast, dimmable lighting seems like it is still some way off.

    The good news is that it sounds relatively simple job to switch to mains voltage solution (no rewiring - just switch the fittings and transformer) when suitable LED replacements do become available. To placate my conscience I'll just have to keep my halogen solution on a dimmed setting until then!

    I also had some good input on this too from a very knowledgable and helpful contact at a light bulb retailer too. If anyone wants the details drop me a line I can send details through.
    cheers,

    Dave
    • CommentAuthorSprocket
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2012
     
    > LED retrofits in either GU10 or MR16 formats still can't match halogen.

    The 7W Aurora and Philips Master LEDS do IMHO.
    We replaced 20x 50W GU10 halogens in our kitchen.
    Before we decided we were Ok with this we replaced just one lamp, then a whole ring of 10. Finally the whole lot. You could hardly tell.

    When you have a whole load of LEDs (and no Halogens) in parallel you can get problems with leading edge dimmers (flicker or pulsing) - in which case you need to swap your dimmers for trailing edge ones. Trailing edge dimmers are good for regular bulbs or electronic transformers too... but not for big inductive loads like old-style transformers.

    Since then we had a flood and had to replace the whole ceiling. So we fitted dedicated LED modules with 'firehood' capability instead (it's about spread of fire, not heat from lamps). They are marginally brighter still but not by much. They still needed the trailing edge dimmers.
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2012
     
    To be fair I've not actually tried any of the LED retrofits myself yet, and am just basing my opinions on what seems to be the consensus from suppliers. Who know's, maybe I might be happy with LED results.

    Sprocket, DamonHD cheers for the suggestions of what's worked for you. The electrician who will be installing said he'd be able to supply some test bulbs to see what I think, so I can give those a whirl.

    cheers again for your help.

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