Wed, 29 Apr 2026 22:47:39 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151853#Comment_151853 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151853#Comment_151853 Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:04:16 +0100 Shevek
15-25 years for PVC? 50 for well-maintained timber?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151862#Comment_151862 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151862#Comment_151862 Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:17:04 +0100 James Norton
"...A survey has been carried out by the present research team with the help of local housing authorities, architects and surveyors throughout the UK to determine the maintenance characteristics, durability and service life of various window designs. The present survey, and of a number of other studies carried out by various organisations, have produced almost identical results showing that aluminium clad timber windows are the most reliable choice. Statistical analysis of the survey results reveals average service life of 47 years for an aluminium-clad timber window. Aluminium and timber windows have been reported to be almost similar in terms of their service life, 43 and 40 years respectively, whilst PVC-U windows, being the least durable, have a service life of 25 years. As shown in Figure 7 (see page 25), aluminium clad timber, aluminium and timber windows are expected to last well beyond the described service life...."

J]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151869#Comment_151869 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151869#Comment_151869 Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:41:20 +0100 GaryB
Co-incidently, the 1903 and 1920 heating pipework and radiators are still intact and ultrasonic testing has indicated the pipes have lost no wall thickness due to corrosion, so are being cleaned and retained.

The 1940's rainwater harvesting system stores 19 m3 of beautifully filtered water and will be used to flush all the toilets once again.

Green or what?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151874#Comment_151874 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151874#Comment_151874 Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:08:52 +0100 Joiner https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151893#Comment_151893 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151893#Comment_151893 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:57:07 +0100 Seret Posted By: GaryB
Co-incidently, the 1903 and 1920 heating pipework and radiators are still intact and ultrasonic testing has indicated the pipes have lost no wall thickness due to corrosion, so are being cleaned and retained.


What are they made of?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151904#Comment_151904 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151904#Comment_151904 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:44:22 +0100 WillInAberdeen
guess there are good and bad examples of both wood and pvc out there. Wont find examples of pvc lasting 50+ years as it hasnt been around long enough. Not sure this tells us anything about how long the frames that are being produced today will last.

I like wooden windows and boats, but have decided to switch to plastic as life is too short. I consoled myself that PVC is not a 'natural' material to make a window out of, but then neither is glass.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151909#Comment_151909 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151909#Comment_151909 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:22:31 +0100 Joiner Will, don't start the "is the current green really sustainable" debate again. ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151913#Comment_151913 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151913#Comment_151913 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:35:39 +0100 Timber
Having said that, I know the owners of the house did take excellent care of them, having them professionally re-painted when required (or sooner!).]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151920#Comment_151920 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151920#Comment_151920 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 11:37:34 +0100 Shevek Posted By: WillInAberdeenI consoled myself that PVC is not a 'natural' material to make a window out of, but then neither is glass.
Actually glass does occurs naturally, in the form of fulgurite.

I don't think PVC occurs without humans digging up hydrocarbons and rearranging them.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151947#Comment_151947 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151947#Comment_151947 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:49:14 +0100 James Norton http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/5575.pdf ...



J]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151950#Comment_151950 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151950#Comment_151950 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:53:30 +0100 Joiner
Oops!
The page you are looking for could not be found.

Try searching for it in the address bar above.


Just me??]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151953#Comment_151953 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151953#Comment_151953 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:02:57 +0100 Shevek http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/5575.pdf]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151954#Comment_151954 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151954#Comment_151954 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:11:31 +0100 SteamyTea http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/5575.pdf]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151958#Comment_151958 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151958#Comment_151958 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:55:33 +0100 Joiner
(Strange that Jim's link, despite looking exactly the same as the two following, still won't work.)]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151961#Comment_151961 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151961#Comment_151961 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:03:52 +0100 Shevek https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151964#Comment_151964 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151964#Comment_151964 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:21:46 +0100 SteamyTea https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151965#Comment_151965 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151965#Comment_151965 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:23:00 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151975#Comment_151975 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=151975#Comment_151975 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:43:19 +0100 Joiner
(The Greater Spotted Url. First sighting this year?)]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152003#Comment_152003 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152003#Comment_152003 Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:37:41 +0100 GaryB
The pipework is very unusual - it is a forged layered iron of 5mm wall thickness (sample pipe was 1" bore) with a high phosphorus content. The technique was used for high quality rifle and shotgun barrels (Damascus Twist was the term used by the specialists).

The phosphorus content was deliberately added to the metal to give corrosion resistance.

The radiators are cast iron, made by the National Radiator Company (now Ideal Standard). They appear to have benefitted from the phosphorus content in the water - thermal imaging showed no evidence of sludge deposits in the radiators.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152004#Comment_152004 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152004#Comment_152004 Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:49:19 +0100 Seret Posted By: GaryBSeret

The pipework is very unusual - it is a forged layered iron of 5mm wall thickness (sample pipe was 1" bore) with a high phosphorus content. The technique was used for high quality rifle and shotgun barrels (Damascus Twist was the term used by the specialists).


I'm familiar with Damascus barrels, very dangerous things, should never be fired with modern loads. Interesting that it's proved so resistant to corrosion though.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152126#Comment_152126 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152126#Comment_152126 Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:56:21 +0100 Monty Gerhardy Posted By: ShevekWhat's the life expectancy of timber-only vs. PVC windows?

15-25 years for PVC? 50 for well-maintained timber?

BRE Green Guide assumes 35 years for any plastic window. In the same relaxed way that they don't discriminate between uPVC with and without lead stabilisers, they don't discriminate between the well made window and the rubbish.
Its not clear what they assume for timber windows but my understanding is a max of 35 years. They have numerous timber windows rated but there's nothing to indicate expected service life of any of them. The most recent work I am aware on service life of timber windows predicts a minimum 60 (to 87) years for a window made to a specified standard -
www.woodwindowalliance.com/fileadmin/docs/Specifiers_Guide/WWA_LCA_report.pdf
The WWA requirements are somewhat less demanding then required by the BWF Timber Window Accreditation Scheme so one could reasonably assume that windows made to that standard would last even longer.

Monty]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152140#Comment_152140 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152140#Comment_152140 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:24:15 +0100 borpin Posted By: ShevekWhat's the life expectancy of timber-only vs. PVC windows?
15-25 years for PVC? 50 for well-maintained timber? To an extent you answered your own question. If well maintained, why would the wood windows come to the end of their life? Unfortunately, house maintenance is something most folks seem not to do, just replace when totally knackered. UPVC's life is fairly fixed but is dependent on things such as exposure and orientation.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152176#Comment_152176 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152176#Comment_152176 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:16:25 +0100 jamesingram But what is it that make UPVC windows fail ?
If it blown units then these can be replaced as with timber,
Handles, hinges, same again
Seals a bit harder , but it could be possible to.
Warped sashs or damaged beads , if the profile is still produced then no problem there.
Does the actual UPVC degrade ?
Are the life expectancy times based on products installed in the 1980's or product installed now,
I notice the greenpeace report is from 1997.

Clearly the manifacturer and supply process of UPVC is worst for our environment than using wood.
I'd always suggest wood if budget wasn't an issue , but when it is, things aren't as clear cut.
One of the biggest cost items for energy efficient refurbishment are the windows , if you want the existing
UK housing stock improved , we'll need to find the cheapest, long term, cost efficient way of doing it, otherwise it wont happen.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152191#Comment_152191 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152191#Comment_152191 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:57:31 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152193#Comment_152193 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152193#Comment_152193 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:00:59 +0100 Joiner https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152198#Comment_152198 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152198#Comment_152198 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:09:53 +0100 jamesingram https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152199#Comment_152199 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152199#Comment_152199 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:10:36 +0100 Joiner https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152201#Comment_152201 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152201#Comment_152201 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:13:13 +0100 jamesingram
that sound's about right to me ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152203#Comment_152203 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152203#Comment_152203 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:17:52 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152207#Comment_152207 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9360&Focus=152207#Comment_152207 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:25:18 +0100 RobL "Faults on windows using PVC-U profiles occur usually in the operating mechanism or the seals, i.e. the components that are not made of PVC. Hence the long term characteristics are determined by the durability, low maintenance and wear characteristics of the components installed into the PVC window frames, and not by those of the frame itself. Since the PVC window frames do not have to be painted with fungicides or protective coatings, no maintenance of the frame is required apart from cleaning"

Anecdotally, our PVC windows are 20 years old with no major problems. Even on the south side, where they get full sun*, there's no sign of cracking or yellowing that I can see. Minor problems are: Gaskets discoloured. One lock mechanism part broken due to burglary, so must be left fully locked (not left open a crack).

In comparison, we have a 10 year old wooden door+frame which is getting spongy in places (bottom of frame is worst). It's being regularly painted, and I've even drilled&injected wood preserver into it, but I can see it's just a matter of time. Poor wood, and poorly installed. Grrr.

*not this year:-(]]>