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Housing - Renovation: lead alternatives

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    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2012 edited
     
    I have a small "flattish" roof area, about 2.4M x 1.5M with a central ridge giving a small ( about 2-3°) fall left and right. Coverings seem to be between GRP, Lead, or Ubbink- Ubbiflex B3. GRP and lead I know, but has anyone got any experience of the Ubbink product, it's certainly cheaper than lead and seems easier to handle weight wise.

    Thanks, Mike
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2012
     
    Cheapest on what time scale? Lead is the long term winner.
  3.  
    What the pitch ? some tiles go down to 12.5 deg
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2012
     
    There really is very little fall JIm just enough to aid runoff. I've also got a guy coming to show me some rubber roofing membranes. I've no knowlege of it but I'm curious.
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2012
     
    Corrugated iron? an02ew and I have just finished a domesic extension with corrugated iron at shallow pitch - looks really good, esp the verge edge cut @ 45o on plane - a lovely lazy wavy edge. Top spec extra thick, galv'd and plastisol colour coated, anti condensation coating to underside - still dirt cheap.
  6.  
    I used the 250mm, B3 thickness, black Ubiflex for a cover flashing over clay 'kawara' tiles while building a house, in Japan, in 2011.

    On the plus side: it was light, clean to use, cut easily, and could be dressed and welted as easily - or even more easily - than lead. And, immediately, after installation it looked 'the business' and I was very pleased.

    However, after six months (and one summer) I was a bit less impressed. As recommended, to prevent wind lift, I'd glued the edge of the flashing down to the tiles using a continuous bead of the 'High Tack' adhesive. From ground level it had appeared that the adhesive had failed with a small gap (3mm to 5mm) showing between the flashing and the tiles. I went up on the roof to re fix it and was surprised to discover that the underside of the flashing was still very firmly glued to the tiles but that the Ubiflex had begun to de-laminate with the upper layer of bitumen/plastic and embedded aluminum mesh pulling away from the bottom layer of bitumen/plastic material glued to the tiles.

    This problem has only occurred along the southern elevation, so I'm guessing it is caused by high temperatures (Ubiflex literature says that it is fine -20C to +90C). We'd had a few hot days (30C plus) so I'm guessing the roof surface must have exceeded the acceptable max temperature.

    Currently, it hasn't deteriorated any further and you can only see a small gap if you take a very close look at the finish of the flashing work. It doesn't seem to have any performance implications as there has not been any further lifting or greater separation between the bitumen/plastic and the mesh or even the slightest water penetration unto the under felt.

    But still... I'd use lead if I could get hold of it easily.
      IMG_Ubiflex.jpg
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2012
     
    Thanks all, That looks like good quality build Tim, congratulations, nice detailing. Is it your own place?
    • CommentAuthorwavy
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2012
     
    I'd thinks carefully about the whole buildup, not just the finish.
    Some products can be used in a 'warm-deck' build up which avoids lots of faff with ventilation. Lead definitely shouldnt be used like this.
    I'm using Zinc for some fairly extensive low pitch areas with a warm deck but the zinc needs an anti-corrosion coating.
    Lindab Make a foldable galv. sheet which might be worth a look depending on your aesthetic preferences.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2012 edited
     
    Whenever I've seen the Lindab stuff it's rust streaked or tiny-spotted. Yes it's a v cheap material compared to the rustproof alternatives, but the labour's the same (v high) so not so much saved.
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomWhenever I've seen the Lindab stuff it's rust streaked or tiny-spotted.

    Lindab do various grades of roofing coating - HBP, aluzinc etc. Are these all worrisome to you, or is it just some of them?
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    Yeah, I don't know which, but there's the point that it doesn't work out fantastically cheaper because labour's same - so I've gone off standing seam roofing as poor value.
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    Hmm, our architect's latest drawings have a curved roof - any thoughts for a better covering?
  13.  
    I've used Lacomet to cover some large dormer aprons.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    I see - can we get corrugated iron rolled to curve?!
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012 edited
     
    Hmm, I suspected you might say something like that! I guess you might say I'm not radical enough to appreciate the aesthetic merits of corrugated iron. And doesn't it suffer from the same corrosion problems as Lindab's steel? Is standing seam stainless, or near-solid zinc any better? Though I guess I need to win the lottery first.
    • CommentAuthorPugliese
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2012
     
    Posted By: PeterStarckLacomet


    What was the cost of Lacomet as it looks good stuff
  17.  
    Just over a year ago I paid £393 for 1m x 10m roll. It's very light and it's good stuff as long as it's being used on a flat surface because it doesn't stretch.
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2012 edited
     
    All kinds of profile sheeting can be rolled to any radius to order - I'm waiting for a price (upllft from flat sheet) from www.hadleygroup.co.uk (B'ham). Unfortunately my favourite Cladco who roll their own don't do curved.

    Corrugated is dirt cheap and easily replaced so can afford to rot a bit - but I suspect it wouldn't as much as Lindab's, as it doesn't get bent (let alone as sharply) on installation.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2012
     
    Quote from Hadley Group, B'ham:

    10no 8ft 'corrugated iron' 10/3" sheets 0.7mm thick galv and Plastisol coated £19.43 ea + VAT
    Additional cost for curving to radius £1.50 ea + VAT
    Additional cost for flock anti condensation coating to underside £4.88 ea + VAT

    Is it 750 cover width? Anyway, damn cheap roof covering, and the curving to order costs peanuts.
  20.  
    Posted By: PeterStarckJust over a year ago I paid £393 for 1m x 10m roll. It's very light and it's good stuff as long as it's being used on a flat surface because it doesn't stretch.


    Used Lacomet also ... easy (IMHO) to work, except less stretch than lead to work so more origami type thinking required potentially ...

    I think it was near enough £20 per metre of 400mm ...

    I sprayed mine black as it was too pale a grey for my project.
      CIMG1913 30%.jpg
  21.  
    Hi Mike

    The hip flashing is very impressive and exactly what I would like. If only I had the time. Maybe one day!

    Pete
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2012
     
    But working with lead is so ... creamy - it's a pity to miss the opportunity.
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomBut working with lead is so ... creamy - it's a pity to miss the opportunity.


    Creamy?

    i think you mean "Costly" espeicially for a mop stick hip , pre formed sprayed steel as in photo must be cheaper and I LIKE IT, very tidy
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: an02ewpre formed sprayed steel
    along with the pressed steel pantiles-on-a-sheet? Instantly recognisable as ersatz IMHO. And the pressed steel cobble-up or cover piece where such hips meet at the apex, and the unclosed roll end at the eave - not shown in the pic. The 'soul' of lead is that it moulds elegantly in a hand-made way to every quirk and detail.

    I've nothing against modern materials/details - but only occasionally are they successful as a repro of a trad detail.
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertom
    Posted By: an02ewpre formed sprayed steel
    along with the pressed steel pantiles-on-a-sheet? Instantly recognisable as ersatz IMHO. And the pressed steel cobble-up or cover piece where such hips meet at the apex, and the unclosed roll end at the eave - not shown in the pic. The 'soul' of lead is that it moulds elegantly in a hand-made way to every quirk and detail.

    I've nothing against modern materials/details - but only occasionally are they successful as a repro of a trad detail.


    On the whole I'd agree ... I hate those developments (that appear overnight seemingly) which look like large versions of scale models, or computer models, of houses because everything is so "perfect" and bland having been pre-fabbed.
    BUT,
    this isn't pre-formed pressed steel ... it goes on just as lead would, except the edges have been rolled over to add rigidity and visual weight.
    The photo was to show the DIY non-opening rooflight flashing as well which is also Lacomet, which is pretty thin (less than 3mm I think) so you can "beat it up" a bit and get a more "hand worked" and less "factory pressed" look The photo has blandified somewhat but there's a hint of it on the window flashing ...
    There won't be a "cobble up", just exactly the same set up as with lead ...
    Absolutely agree that the unclosed roll end is a bit of a teaser. We're going to "plug" the end with either N, S, E and W letters (as they correspond) or some homemade gargoyles!



    Posted By: PeterStarckHi Mike

    The hip flashing is very impressive and exactly what I would like. If only I had the time. Maybe one day!

    Pete


    "I thank yow!"
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    Posted By: MikeRumneythis isn't pre-formed pressed steel ... it goes on just as lead would
    Oh I misunderstood - this is steel? and worked like lead? I will look online.
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    I think anO2ew introduced the steel ... it's an aluminium/fibreglass/aluminium sandwich ... "Lacomet FL" ...
      CIMG1744 40%.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    ... pic supposed to show stages of "fabrication" for the ridge pieces ...
  29.  
    Mike, I like the picture, that is excellent work, it looks very precise.
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2012
     
    Posted By: PeterStarckMike, I like the picture, that is excellent work, it looks very precise.


    My head is now jammed in the garage door it's so big!

    The "former" is an abandoned curtain rail, clamped to some 8 by 2 with a couple of redundant brackets off a drainage channel ... and then the metal goes between that and a wood strip clamped over the top ... Sliding a hammer along makes the crease to a right angle then it gets flipped over to finish the fold with the sliding hammer again ...
      CIMG1721 40%.jpg

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