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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    Quite right S.T. who can promise such a thing? I can only imagine that there is a misunderstanding or misrepresantation of the golden rule, which is only refering to the repayment part being less or the same as the savings through the improvements. It doesn't deal with the total utility costs of the property.
    ''I have heard from a GD assessor that if I take a green deal my energy bill will be fixed and will not exceed what it is now for the length of my GD loan

    Suddenly I am very keen to take up a small one simply to fix me energy costs!

    Is this true and what are the caveats?''

    AFAIK ***no!!!***

    What he/she *may* have meant is that, all other things being equal for the term of the loan (which they are highly unlikely to be), your *heating* energy *consumption* ''will not exceed what it is now for the length of (your) GD loan''. That's plausible. There is, to my knowledge, absolutely nothing in the GD re fixing prices. They don't even fix the loan cost, let alone ongoing fuel costs.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2013
    Posted By: chippyclaus…the golden rule, which is only refering to the repayment part being less or the same as the savings through the improvements.
    I think that should be:

    …the golden rule, which is only refering to the repayment part being less or the same as the estimated savings through the improvements.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMay 2nd 2013
    How many have taken up the green deal so far?

    I registered that I was interested over two months ago, no one contacted me yet
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2013
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2013
    Was a bit on You and Yours about con men taking a survey fee of people today, so if that puts people off taking up the GD, then it is a good scam, can't always say that.
    "Sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace"
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2013 edited
    MPs have called for a clearer vision, verifiable performance indicators and regular review of policy to ensure the Green Deal is a success.

    The green deal, the flagship environmental policy of the UK's coalition government intended to make the country's homes more energy efficient, has received a fresh blow after an influential committee of MPs blasted the government on Wednesday morning for failing to quantify what could be counted as a success for the policy.

    The parliamentary select committee on energy and climate change accused ministers of failing to set clear goals for what they hoped to achieve from the green deal. That failure would make it harder to achieve substantial outcomes from the policy, the group of MPs said.


    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    The number of homeowners insulating their walls has crashed this year, according to new data that places fresh pressure on the government to make a success of its flagship energy efficiency Green Deal programme.

    According to figures from the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency (CIGA), the number of homes installing cavity wall insulation fell to just over 1,000 last month, compared to nearly 40,000 in April 2012.


    So there you have it, home insulation is dead!!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    How many of those 1,000 a month were done on the Green Deal?
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013 edited
    Colin, I would think somewhere between none and a few. Talking to installers the GD has effectively killed off CWI and loft insulation. What used to be done under CERT and CESP for almost nothing is priced at ÂŁ500-600 under GD. Effectively the only CWI that's being done through 3rd party funding is that falling within the Affordable Warmth section of ECO
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2013
    Here is a bit of US research as to why the utility companies are not pushing energy reduction and ways they could.

    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2013 edited
    According to You and Yours (05/06/2013) Enact Energy has gone into administration because the change over from ECO to GD has not been very successful.
    My one experience of Enact was when they were trying to set up with the big retailers to fit PV, and it was not a happy one.
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2013
    Change over from CERT to GD I think you mean Nick.

    BTW latest I heard was that there had been 18,000 GD assessments completed and 3 - yes 3 - had signed up for a GD loan. I'm guessing that a lot of the assessments were for ECO though.
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2013
    Could be, only had half an ear on it, good to hear that a Cornish company is leading the way.
    So are the official figures on the DECC site now? they are about due
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2013
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2013
    cant see how many green deals have been taken up
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2013
    Posted By: tonycant see how many green deals have been taken up

    It says...

    "In order to understand the flow from Green Deal Assessments to Plans through to measures installed we will need to incorporate, link and quality assure evidence from a range of sources. As a result, data on Green Deal Plans and measures installed under Green Deal and/or ECO are not yet available for publication as time is needed for this quality assurance. This information will be published for the first time on 27 June 2013".

    How hard can it be to count them?
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2013 edited
    Posted By: CWattersHow hard can it be to count them?
    Should that nor be 'how hard can it be to massage them':wink:

    We had an announcement about wind farm planning this morning. So GD is not that great, wind installation will be virtually impossible, Fracking is going to take ages, coal isn't allowed, the EU is now taking the problems of Biomass fuels seriously, we don't have a great potential for Hydro, Nuclear is going to take 15 year.
    What shall we do for energy? Hardly seems worth saving any if there is none to go around. :wink:
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2013
    I'm sure the number will increase by 27th June.
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite>we don't have a great potential for Hydro</blockquote>

    maybe not down your way, but up here we have plenty potential, indeed a handfull of schemes across a few sizes are underway. of course not strictly being done in the spirit (or scale) of the orginal NOSHEB hydro schemes from back in the day, but never mind..... in the event of independance i'm sure we'll (probably have to!) sell you some :)

    back on topic, i was rencent at a presentation in aberdeenshire about this very thing, and this presentation is probably well worth a read regarding the "attractiveness" of GD as it stands

    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2013
    Posted By: Graeme Berrymaybe not down your way, but up here we have plenty potential
    There maybe more, but doubt if more than GW is accessible (i.e. get though planning, licensing, distribution, economic assessment etc).

    Posted By: Graeme Berryregarding the "attractiveness" of GD as it stands
    Pretty good assessment of the problems. I do wonder how many 'hard to treat' dwellings there are to 'normal to treat' ones.
    fair point, although we do have extensive previous for steamrollering all the issues you describe when needs must, there was quite a big uproar about the original schemes, but they still (eventually) went ahead. if having no electricity was a powerful incentive in the 1940's, doubtless it may be again the 2040s?

    certainly in rural areas up here (which was what that conference was about) HTT is a fairly sizable proportion, complicated by the majority of the being off gas network (mix of oil/lpg and electric storage), so no easy boiler upgrade fixes. solid granite walls with coombed ceilings (so no cavity or loft insulation) is also pretty much the norm in almost all traditional (pre-1919) houses, and a sizable number of pre-WW2 ones as well. so for a lot of rural scotland, all the "easy" fixes are off the menu, and the green deal economics mostly don't stack up for the rest (edit:even with ECO).

    certainly from my own coombed and solid walled perspecitve (albeit on gas network) i wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, rather get a conventional loan and do the work myself, thus maximising the percentage of actual efficiency measures, and elimiating the percentage going to accreditation bodies (which is considerable, and often overlooked) and middlemen. there's also pretty substantial potential liabilities and long term damage arising from poorly trained/inexperienced assessors, who may not grasp the full extent of likely issues with retrofit (interstial condensation, inadequate permeability of fabric, ventilation etc etc etc). and don't get me started on rdSAP.....

    i'd guess that's a fairly common GBF view? the layman might say different though i suppose.
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2013
    Posted By: Graeme Berryi'd guess that's a fairly common GBF view? the layman might say different though i suppose.
    Seems to be, but we can warn where we can.
    I think there is a lot of HTT places down here too, actually think they're the same age, construction and architect.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2013 edited
    The Government’s flagship Green Deal scheme is making “painfully slow” progress, with just 12 homes installing energy saving measures since its launch in January.

    The Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC) said 71,210 households had been assessed for Green Deal measures such as solar panels and insulation at the end of August, up from 58,124 in July.

    But only 677 households have gone to the next stage and said they would like to proceed with the scheme. Of these, 12 houses have had measures installed, while 293 properties had quotes accepted on work and 372 properties had installations "pending".

    The figures also showed the number of homes assessed for energy-saving measures fell in August. There were 13,086 properties assessed during the month, a 4pc fall from July.

    Energy and Climate Change Minister Greg Barker said: “It is still early days for the new Green Deal market but encouragingly over 71,000 Green Deal assessments have now been completed.”

    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2014 edited
    Lame duck or what -----

    The government is seriously considering dropping the so-called "golden rule" that underpins financing for its Green Deal energy efficiency scheme, as the policy continues to struggle to spark widespread consumer interest.

    As the Green Deal approaches its first birthday, government figures yesterday revealed just 1,612 households had Green Deal Plans in progress as of the end of December, far short of the 10,000 which Climate Change Minister Greg Barker had predicted would be completed over the first 12 months of the scheme.

    All they need to do is drop the interest rate to level that covers cost without profit (as with student loan ?)
    and they might get some takers
    Is it just me or ........
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2014
    I agree, anyone taking the finance must rich or brain dead
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2014
    James, the 'bond markets' are not going to be interested at lower interest rates, and that is where the finance comes from...:devil:
    Where does the finance for student loans come from ?
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