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    • CommentAuthorwilliamd
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012
     
    My house has, in part, rendered/tiled brick walls with a cavity. The cavity was ventilated through vents to air at the bottom with the top of the cavity being open so venting into the roof space. I have had the cavity filled with bonded polystyrene beads. However the insulation does not seem to have had any appreciable effect in that this part of the house seems just as difficult to keep warm. Is it likely that this is because the cavity is open at the top?

    I should add that the house is beside the sea in Wales and thus suffers driving rain at times.

    Thanks.
  1.  
    Hi William,

    If the cavity has been completely filled then any vents would have a minimal affect on heat losses as the air path between them has essentially been cut off. I'm assuming the low level ones were blocked up.

    I''m not saying this is the case with you but some houses do not lend themselves to full-fill insulation. Particularly areas of high exposure. Where in Wlaes are you? And what age and type of house?
  2.  
    "Is it likely that this is because the cavity is open at the top?"

    this shouldn't make any difference , beads should fill up to the top , often spilling over into thel loft/ eaves space.
    • CommentAuthorwilliamd
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012
     
    In response to Mike George's questions:

    1) The low level vents were not blocked, other than by the insulation.
    2) The house is on the Gower peninsula.
    3) The part of the house concerned is an extension built circa 1950 and the rooms in the extension have 3 external walls so keeping heat in is difficult.

    We have been wondering about whether to additionally put aerogel or similar on the inside of the walls but before going to the trouble/expense of this wanted to see if there is any reason the CWI is not working as well as it might.
  3.  
    One problem with CWI mentioned here before is the quality of the fill. If the CWI went in leaving voids then it won't work at all well. I'm afraid I don't know an easy way to check this, perhaps thermal image camera in the heating season (expensive) or inspection holes (drill or brick removal) but this can be a bit random without some clue as to where to inspect.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012 edited
     
    Just done a few knock throughs on cav. walls with eps beads and I was impressed with the quality of the fill, best I've seen , usually with rockwool or that white, all most foam like stuff, it can be quite patchy.

    How much quilt you got up in the loft ( 300mm+ is good )
    also do you have scaled ceiling , ie chalet bungalow, 1 ,1/2 storey . and if so is this area insulated ?
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012
     
    All of the polystyrene CWI which I've seen is pretty air permeable - at least as permeable as typical glass fibre loft insulation is. Given the location of the building, the most likely culprit sounds like thermal bypass from air travelling through the cavity wall insulation to me.

    Any chance of some photos of the house and surroundings?
    • CommentAuthorwilliamd
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012
     
    I got the impression that the guys installing the insulation were thorough.

    There is about 300mm of soft insulation on the floor of the loft. The extension that has had CWI is 2 storey and the top of the wall is about 2 ft above the loft floor so that the cavity is ventilating into a cold space. If you look at the manufacturers website http://www.warmfill.com/presentation_1.htm there is a reference to the beads being ventilated. My concern is that the heat from inside the house is passing into the insulation and then rising through the insulation and venting into the cold roof space. On the other hand given that there is driving rain at times then it may be advisable to have some degree of ventilation of the cavity. Any expertise on this isuue would be welcomed.
  4.  
    Well the presentation is certainly impressive. The water drainage argument makes sense. One question they don't address is how the water gets out of the cavity [or I didn't see it at least] I would expect there to be perpend weep vents or similar just above DPC level. Are there any there?

    I don't think the heat lost by air losses can realy be that significant unless there are gaping holes everywhere. And I doubt there's any software out there that can accurately model it.

    Thermal Imaging would give you your answers I suspect - but not cheap
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2012
     
    An IR thermometer would be a lot cheaper than thermal imaging, though more tedious to use.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2012
     
    Posted By: Mike GeorgeThermal Imaging would give you your answers I suspect - but not cheap

    Posted By: Ed DaviesAn IR thermometer would be a lot cheaper than thermal imaging, though more tedious to use.
    Yes to both of them.

    As it is 3 sided, are they West, North, East, are they shaded and what is the surface area of the walls, floor and ceiling.
    Also what is the general air tightness of the room like?
  5.  
    Posted By: williamdHowever the insulation does not seem to have had any appreciable effect in that this part of the house seems just as difficult to keep warm. Is it likely that this is because the cavity is open at the top?
    Is the inner leaf block/masonry? Is it finished with wet plaster or plasterboard? If plasterboard then there's likely to be significant air leakage through the inner leaf. The air gap behind the plasterboard may be open to the loft/joist space above &/or a ventilated floor space below.

    Posted By: williamdMy concern is that the heat from inside the house is passing into the insulation and then rising through the insulation and venting into the cold roof space.
    If the insulation has been installed to the correct density then the quoted U value should take this into account. However, you could try sealing the top of the cavity with a piece of rigid insulation.

    You've not mentioned the floors. Are they suspended timber floors? Are they insulated? Is there an air barrier? Could they be providing a source for the air going up the back of the plasterboard?

    David
  6.  
    Great thoughts on the dry lining and suspended floor David:clap:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2012
     
    Yes
    Air leaking can soon take the warm air away.
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