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Housing - New Build: Acoustic absorption in internal partitions...

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  1.  
    So basically, internal stud walls, how to make them a bit less hollow and reduce noise transmission with something as cheap as tightly squeezed loft roll but a bit more touchy feely....

    J
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
    I used to do double plasterboard one side fill with rockwool acoustic batts, seal all gaps and cracks
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
    Fill them with sand (pugging as it was call)?
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
  5.  
    Posted By: TimberFill them with sand (pugging as it was call)?
    ...sandy floor if you put a shelf up take a plug out...?


    Posted By: djhFill the studs with light clay straw:
    ...sounds good but a bit labour intensive...?


    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
    You know those off cuts of ESP on the other thread, well...
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
    I like ST's suggestion, or clean rag from recycling place? The loft roll made from recycled bottles?
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012
     
    EPS offcuts wouldn't offer much in the way of appreciable benefit to sound transmission reduction or reduction in the 'hollowness'.

    As for it falling out, a lean dry mix?

    It is a stupid suggestion, but short of mineral wool batts (or glass wool or plastic wool), there are not many other choices!!!
  9.  
    You can increase sound attenuation by using denser boards like Fermacell gypsum fibreboard or Gyproc SoundBloc gypsum plasterboard. These can be attached to the studs via resilient bars to increase isolation. And, as Tony says, you can double board one side or both.

    Metal studs provide higher sound attenuation than timber studs, but you need a dense fill to avoid a "metallic" sound when the panels are rapped.

    Denser mineral wool batts perform better than loft roll. If you have a bit more money to spend, flexible woodfibre batts give the partition a more "solid" sound when rapped.

    David
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: davidfreeboroughMetal studs provide higher sound attenuation than timber studs, but you need a dense fill to avoid a "metallic" sound when the panels are rapped.
    Interesting - Why (edit - why metal studs better)?
  11.  
    Double plasterboard every time.

    I seem to remember something from lectures about doubling the density (halves?) the sound transmission in a simple partition. (The mass law I think) Simplistic though, and doesn't apply to all frequencies
  12.  
    Posted By: borpinInteresting - Why (edit - why metal studs better)?
    I'm not sure of the reason, but all the metal frame & plasterboard manufacturers show better performance for metal studs than timber. I assume its because the metal studs are more rigid & because they are a very different density to plasterboard, so sound doesn't pass from plasterboard to stud as effectively.

    David
  13.  
    Is the plasterboard fixed to the metal studs using a resilient method? therby reducing sound by vibration?
  14.  
    It can be, but even standard C section studs show better performance than timber. Perhaps it could be due to the reduced section of material linking one side of the wall to the other?

    David
  15.  
    Yes, that makes sense. Less cross sectional area for vibration through the center of the 'C'
  16.  
    Blown cellulose fill can be used too, though can be messy to retrofit (he says, speaking from experience).

    Paul.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2012 edited
     
    http://www.euroform.co.uk/pdf/Promonta%20BBA.pdf but only seem to be on solid floors
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2012
     
    I use 40 mm dense polyurethane foam that comes in 2 x 1 m sheets that fits well with metal studding. Takes off the hollow sound and for improved performance where necessary a double panel.
  19.  
    Where sensitive we have double boards and resilient bars, also I know that 25 or full fill quilt/roll makes little odds acousticly, its just the hollowness...

    J
  20.  
    Yes, I've never seen any merit in using flexible insulation for airbourne sound reduction.. just consider which of the flexi insulants are advertised as being the best ...umm..the very dense ones..
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2012
     
    Acoustic insulation isn't really ment to stop sound transmission. It is purely to absorb reverberant sound in the stud void, therefore ultimate density makes little difference.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2012 edited
     
    Yes, I agree, but that's not necessarilly what its promoted for. Also if you look at building regiulations guidance notes, flexi insulation is part of the solution offered to gain the required Transmission Loss between certain constructions. I know this to my cost as I was recently forced by a Building Inspector to use a particular flexi product between the ground and first floor of a bungalow attic conversion. This despite there being a clear bypassing route between the hall, open staircase and the landing above [no doors]
  23.  
    I've never seen rigid polyurethane insulation recommended for sound absorption, even by the manufacturers.

    Being lightweight and rigid it will tend to reflect sound waves &/or transmit them from one face to the other. If used to fully fill voids, it may help reduce the hollow sound of the partition caused by reverberation, but it will also tend to increase transmission from one side of the partition to the other.

    Sound absorbing material needs to be flexible so that it doesn't reflect sound waves or transmit them from one face to the other. Density is not critical, but a certain amount of density is necessary for it to do its job & increasing the density will increase performance.

    The first 50mm or so makes the most difference by attenuating reflections, but filling the void will help increase damping of the panels & reduce transmission.

    David
  24.  
    Interesting article on soundproofing:

    http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/soundproofing-principles.html

    David
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2012
     
    Just to be clear, David. I'm not recommending rigid PUR board. The stuff I use is PUR foam and provides an elastic medium for acoustic attenuation.
  26.  
    Here's the Domestic Guidance Note I referred to . Options for partitions on the bottom of page 3
  27.  
    ...pre-recycled clothing...?

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2012
     
    Posted By: James Norton...pre-recycled clothing...?

    Or
    Songwriters: HEATON, PAUL / ROTHERAY, DAVE

    He was just a social drinker but social every night
    He enjoyed a pint or two or three or four
    She was just a silent thinker, silent every night
    He'd enjoy the thought of killing her before
    Well he was very rarely drunk but very rarely sober
    And he didn't think the problem was his drink
    But he only knew his problem when he knocked her over
    And when the rotting flesh began to stink
    Cry freedom for the woman in the wall
    Cry freedom for she has no voice at all
    I hear her cry all day, all night
    I hear her voice from deep within the wall
    Made a cross from knitting needles
    Made a grave from hoover bags
    Especially for the woman in the wall
    She'd knitted him a jumper with dominoes on
    So he wore it everyday in every week
    Pretended to himself that she hadn't really gone
    Pretended that he thought he heard her speak
    Then at last it seemed that he was really winning
    He felt that he had some sort of grip
    But all of his new life was sent a-spinning
    When the rotting wall began to drip
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2012
     
    That might work in the beautiful south but James is up in Yorkshire. Still think clean recycled rag might fit the bill.
    And didn't they used to seal a poor little kitty cat in the walls of old houses as they were built?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2012
     
    Posted By: RobinBold houses as they were built?

    Probably not just old houses :wink:

    Always worth remembering about cables and fire in a cavity (my sensible contribution).

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