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Energy Assessment: Appliance ratings

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    Everyone wants A rated appliances now

    But there is a problem as we now have A+, A++, and even A+++

    It seems to be a system that is falling apart, also no account of total use, a small fridge uses less than a USA style fridge freezer.

    Do we need a new appliance rating system?
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: tonyDo we need a new appliance rating system?

    Don't things like fridges & freezers tend to quote a kWh/year figure too?

    Maybe kWh/year/m^3 of useable volume?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    We should have done what I believe that the EPA does and Japan does which is increase the stringency of each rating so that 'C' or whatever represents the performance of something in the top quartile from X years before, so that 'A' is always best but that means a better and better efficiency over time.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    What a good idea!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: DamonHDso that 'A' is always best but that means a better and better efficiency over time.

    Or worse if the median performance gets lower.
    Isn't that how the LIBOR is fixed :wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    1) I suspect that the rules are fixed *not* to allow the efficiency Energy Star (etc) gains to unwind.

    2) LIBOR uses/used a simple median filter which as the NYFR pointed out to the FSA/BoE was/is susceptible to being gamed, and *needing* to be gamed by banks not wanting to gain attention for not being in the median 'enough'.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorJTGreen
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    Anyone have ideas about the best fridge freezers at the moment. We intended to reuse all our appliances, and everything has remained in remarkably good shape having been stored on a building site for several months. Except the fridge-freezer. We had quite a good (energy efficient) one from Neff in 2002/3, but it's buggered now. At first I thought it was just the door seal and got that sorted, but it still has a too-thick layer of ice on the back wall. I hate to replace it, but I think fridge-freezers are one of those items where it make sense to do so. Ideally want to reuse the same door fronts (current is built in) and so would need to buy a 70/30 split fridge-freezer model. The Neff A++ model is very very fancy (do we really need dedicated humidity controlled zones for everything) and also about twice the price of the A+ model. Worth it? I find the EST website for appliances utterly confusing - it doesn't let you search by energy rating, for a start!
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012 edited
     
    I went through this a while ago (see here: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=7786&page=1)

    We ended up with an AEG, pretty good, my only gripe is one noted in that thread, the excellent door seal creates a partial vacuum inside that makes opening the door difficult for a few minutes after closing it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    • CommentAuthorJTGreen
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    Thanks for all your help! Have just purchased an AEG A++ model http://www.aeg.co.uk/Products/Cooling/Built-in/Fridge_freezers/SCT81900S0 - it's almost half the price of what looks to be the equivalent NEFF model.

    Took a bit of searching for as doesn't appear on the sust-in website. I think integrated products are harder to find at A++ rating, and if I had thought a bit more about it I probably would have been better with a freestanding fridge-freezer from energy performance point of view (the A+++ are all freestanding I think). However as we were planning on reusing existing appliances we now have the housing already there for it to slot into - another of the lessons learnt, I guess. Not that I'm ever doing this again.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    You goign top plug an energy meter into it for a few weeks to see how it really performs?
    • CommentAuthorJTGreen
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    Would be awkward as the plug socket is behind the housing and inaccessible once appliance is in place (with switched fuse spur accessible - but useless for energy monitoring purposes). Another downside of built-in appliances. Could I get a sense of how much it consumes by switching everything else off? Complicated by the PV solar use as well (we don't have a separate export meter, just a measure of how much generated total, and then our usage from the grid total). I want to set up some energy monitoring (the solar company offer a free lower-tech one, and try to sell a fancier all-singing, dancing one) now we're back in, but not sure what is going to give the most accurate idea of what we're using where.
    • CommentAuthorJTGreen
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    Actually, not possible to switch everything else off, there are things that must draw something (however small) whole time which are hard wired - we have a couple of smoke alarms, a heat sensor (in the kitchen where I refused a smoke alarm) and carbon monoxide detector all hard wired. I guess we could switch them off at the fuse box temporarily which testing the fridge-freezer. The combi boiler is also always 'on', not sure how much it draws when it is idle and waiting for us to run hot water. Again, could be turned off for short testing, but not for a few weeks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    Wire it in on an extension lead.
    I use a CurrentCost monitor, it does not take into account voltage, but gives a fairly good idea for comparison. General consensus on here (2 of us) seem to be that it over reads by 10 to 15%.
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2012
     
    Posted By: tony
    Do we need a new appliance rating system?


    Yes, clearly. The current system has resulted in the efficiency improvements it was designed to bring about. I don't think it'll be too long before there's either a recalibration or a new system altogether.

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