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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    I know it's like asking how long is a piece of string, but I'm going to view a 1960s vintage timber bungalow on Saturday with a view of buying it. I was wondering what is/was the design life of such old structures and what should I be looking for in terms of problems/issues with the timber?

    Long term I will probably replace or remodel it, but we need somewhere to live in the short term.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    Triassic,

    if it has been looked after then several hundred years depending on the type of structure.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    It looks like a 1960s bunglow and appears on first inspection to have been well looked after.

    I assume that it won't have much insulation in the walls and roof. The roof covering is described as shingle and looks like felt shingles. All windows are timber, single glazed.
  1.  
    Is a bunaglow something you get after a good curry?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    past it sell by date for me
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
     
    Just been sent the Energy Efficiency rating chart, scored 38. So not much insulation then?!!

    "Past its sell be date" - Maybe I should be looking at this as a knock down and start again job?
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    Posted By: Triassic
    "Past its sell be date" - Maybe I should be looking at this as a knock down and start again job?


    Triassic,

    it depends on what you think is important. Yes, it might be past its sell by date as Tony suggests but unless Tony has actually seen the property he is basing his idea on theory and not on hard fact/knowledge. You could upgrade the structure to improve it or carefully knock it down and reuse what you can.

    The reason why many builders (not suggesting Tony in this so Hope no offence is taken by you Tony:smile:) recommend knocking down is it is the easiest option.

    Jonti
  2.  
    A lot will depend on how well the house was built, and how well its actual construction (never mind how it was designed) has dealt with water vapour and damp in its many possible forms. It may well be that if it is draughty and poorly-insulated the main structure may have survived well. Let us know more details once you have seen it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Jonti</cite>
    The reason why many builders (not suggesting Tony in this so Hope no offence is taken by you Tony) recommend knocking down is it is the easiest option.

    Jonti</blockquote>

    There's also VAT to consider. Renovating it means paying VAT on everything, knocking it down and building new means it's VAT exempt. That 20% might make a big difference to the viability equation.
  3.  
    I live in a 1920s timber frame (4”x2”) and am replacing it with a Passivhaus which I am building in the garden. I looked into using permitted development to extend it but because of the age and condition of it I decided to replace it. Had it been a 1960s in good condition I would probably have tried to update it to near Passivhaus and used permitted development to do it. It took four years to get planning permission for the replacement house.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    Posted By: JSHarris
    Posted By: Jonti
    The reason why many builders (not suggesting Tony in this so Hope no offence is taken by you Tony) recommend knocking down is it is the easiest option.

    Jonti


    There's also VAT to consider. Renovating it means paying VAT on everything, knocking it down and building new means it's VAT exempt. That 20% might make a big difference to the viability equation.


    Good point JSH,

    really VAT should be reclaimable on any upgrade.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012 edited
     
    Well I've just got back from viewing the property and its a definite buy, the plot is to die for! the views are amazing and you get a 3/4 acrea garden and 2 acres of mature woodland as part of the deal.

    The bungalow, all 160m2 of it, looks older than my original 1960s estimate, one local recons it was built just after the war.

    Exterior is 3/4 inch weatherboard with a ceder shingle roof. The windows are all timber, double glazed, but probably 20 years old looking how rotten some of them are. Internally the partition walls are mainly thin ply downstairs and hardboard in the 2 rooms in the loft. I did not spot any insulation anywhere in the property (and I looked).

    So on Monday we start the negotiations with a lowish offer to get the ball rolling, lets hope the soon to be divorced couple accept it without too much haggling.
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2012
     
    We once put in a very cheeky offer on half done up wreck being sold as part of divorce - they bit our hand off!

    Have you be able to inspect any of the frame, poke with key/screwdriver? Early post war timber houses we will prob not have a Inside VCL but may have had an outside bitumous membrane meaning worse case of trapping moisture. But if good plot and location go for it, all other things can be changed
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2012
     
    Wasn't able to inspect the frame as the exterior weatherboard was all in sound condition. The only rot we spotted was in window frames, due to lack of paint, and a soft spot in the kitchen floor (rotten floor boards or joists!). The exterior timber was very well preserved in crosote and were black because of the amount applied over the years!

    We'll have to see if they bite our hand off on Monday, following our initial cheeky offer!
  4.  
    I had a fairly early timber frame bungalow and I had condensation problems in cold weather. I never did get it sorted out after quite a bit of tweaking. The patio doors had so much water running down them in the winter the skirting and floor was in a terrible state. Mind you, just before I sold I found out the floating floor had zero insulation under it, walls, I never found out and loft around 50mm. Not very good. It put me off timber houses but I know that they have come on so far now. It is totally daft of me. My only other slight concern is differing expansion rates from different materials. I would imagine timber can give more problems that block but that could be wrong? I am no builder,
    Gusty.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2012
     
    Posted By: gustyturbineMy only other slight concern is differing expansion rates from different materials.

    Funny that. Chatting the other day with the chap who'd self-built the house across the road from a plot I'm considering (the one which would have the rumbling drain) he said his 120 m² bungalow was two leaves of 100 mm block with a 50 mm cavity between with a timber frame inside separated by an additional 25 mm gap to avoid any problems of movement between the timber and blocks. First I'd heard of the concept. Even two leaves of block outside the timber frame was a bit surprising to me but it is on top of a hill on the east coast of Scotland. Are either of these design aspects common?
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2012
     
    I inspected a 60's timber frame house recently and it was in perfect condition.

    Far from past its sell by date. As for insulation, it won't have much - likely 25 mm of mineral wool between studs, but if the studs are 100 mm deep, you could retro fit to bring it up to a decent standard fairly easily.

    As far as condition, a lot can be assessed about how it was constructed without having to open up. If built well, with a few key things in place, it should be in perfectly servicable condition. Just think about the timber roofs on nearly all houses. Mine is getting on for 90 years old and is perfect. Yes I know it is well vented which is a key consideration to long term durability, but just because it is wood and 'wood rots' doesn't mean that it has!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2012 edited
     
    Just had my offer on the timber bungalow accepted. Turns out it was built in the 1930s.

    Just need to sort out a mortgage!

    It comes with 2 acres of woodland and about a dozen fruit trees.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2012
     
    Great news -- well done -- now the hard part starts:wink:
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2012
     
    30's ay? Are you prepared to post a picture of what it looks like, i.e. is it a 'kit' house or a scratch built/custom built unit. If kit, I *might* be able to unearth some more info about it.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2012
     
    Photo attached in message above as a pdf.

    What do you think?
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2012
     
    Triassic,

    it looks good to me, plenty of character so I would look at maintaining it. Then again I do dislike pulling something down that is still in good order just for the hell of it and I am sure some here will say it is better and greener to pull it down and new build.

    Jonti
  5.  
    Triassic, It's a nice looking property and I don't want to appear a miserable sod, but a lot of bungalows of that age had internal walls lined with asbestos sheeting.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2012
     
    PeterS Thanks for the heads up regarding the potential asbestos problem. I'll take care when doing my initial investigations!

    Although my offer has been accepted I'm now at the mercy of the banks and their valuation, and having met with their valuer today I have a bit of a sinking feeling.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2012
     
    Hmm, that has obviously had two extentions to the front (porch and thing on the left) which makes it a bit harder to see what it was before, but I don't specifically recognise the design of the building as one of the the ones I have some information on.

    I am on leave this week, but will have a quick dig on Monday next week.
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