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    • CommentAuthordbj
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012
     
    Hi,
    Came across this site the other day and wondered if anyone has any feedback on the 'Mark 11' (as described),which appears to be a primitive version of the emma sytem at much reduced cost.
    Has anyone used one? If so I would be interested in their review.

    Site: solarimmersionheaterswitch.co.uk

    Thanks
  1.  
    Looks interesting, thanks for the pointer. we looked at the emma system and with the help from some of the guys on here quickly worked out a better return on investment for us was to insulate our wax tanks to a better level. But it would be interesting to hear what people think of this.
    • CommentAuthorjamesw
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012
     
    Thanks from me too. I haven't used one, but there is a positive comment dated 17 July 2012 from a user at http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1737/Auto+control+enables+use+of+solar+PV+for+immersion+heater/
    • CommentAuthorjamesw
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012 edited
     
    There suddenly seems to be a profusion of devices like this. Here is a list of what I know about (prices are inclusive of VAT and may not be the lowest available, particularly in the future!).

    Devices that turn on a fixed load:

    1. Intelligent Solar Immersion Heater Switch Mark II, http://solarimmersionheaterswitch.co.uk £229

    2. SolarDivert, http://www.solardivert.co.uk/index.html £369

    3. Immersion Heater Relay, http://www.rudgerenewables.co.uk/intelligent-power-management/our-immersion-heater-relay-unit £160

    4. Variety of home-brew devices, e.g.:
    i) Arduino-based at http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/node/217
    ii) http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16274.0.html (link from first post of jamesingram below)
    iii) Another approach described in the body of the first post of jamesingram below

    Devices that vary current according to excess available:

    A. EMMA, http://www.coolpowerproducts.com/uk/emma.html >£1000?

    B. ImmerSUN, http://www.immersun.co.uk £444

    C. S&G Wooldridge Solar PV Controller, http://www.sgwooldridge.co.uk/cms/solarpvswitch £474

    D. Sunny Home Manager, http://www.sma-uk.com/en_UK/products/monitoring-systems/sunny-home-manager.html - appears to be a German product allegedly launching in the UK in 2012 but haven't seen a price. And maybe this should go into the first class - haven't looked in detail at the technical capability.

    E. [Allegedly forthcoming in late 2012] Add-on to Energeno's Wattson energy monitor, http://blog.diykyoto.com/2012/04/upcoming-products.html

    If anyone knows of others, post below and I'll try to edit this post to add them to the list!

    Apparently Chris Rudge is going to review some products "in due course", according to the editor's comment at http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1955/Can+I+connect+solar+PV+to+my+storage+heaters'3F/

    My only interest in all of this is that I'm planning to install a product next year to make use of my excess solar PV. In my view, the second class of products above - i.e. the ones that vary current to make use of all of the available excess (but no more) - is greatly preferable if available at a reasonable cost. My strong inclination at the moment is therefore towards the ImmerSUN.

    I'll put a pointer to this thread on a couple of old GBF threads on this issue, to try to keep all new discussion here (those threads are at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=8653 and http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=8456 ).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012
     
    This is revolutionary stuff. Makes a big difference to PV usefulness and cost-benefit I'd have thought - to make good use of actual surplus in exchange for forgoing the measly 3p per unit 'deemed' to be surplus. Thanks for the comprehensive listing.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012
     
    I'd wait a year and they will all be loads cheaper by then.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012 edited
     
    nice DIY option here http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16274.0.html

    some Helpful fella sent me this super cheap option a while back
    "Hi the device consists of two photo electric switches (you can buy these at maplins for £5.99 each) and a s.s.r (solid state relay) you can get them on ebay for 99p +p&p
    firstly solder one of the photo cells to a long lead(something like doorbell wire)
    then this is placed somewhere in the sunshine so that it's in the sun at the same time as your
    solar panels ( i've put mine on the roof next to the panels) run the lead back to the circuit board
    this is then set so that when you are producing X amount of power the switch operates.
    this alone will turn on and off your heater but to stop it from using imported leccy when you turn something
    on like a kettle,the second photo electric switch looks at the red flashing light on
    your electric meter (you need to have a digital electric meter with the red flashing light on it)
    the photo electric switch that looks at the meter needs to be the one with the delay on it
    when the led is flashing you are importing leccy and when it is on all the time you are exporting lecy,
    place the photo cell so that it is looking at this light this then triggers the switch when the light comes on the output of the relay is linked to the output of the other switch which then turns on the s.s.r
    this then turns on your heater
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/light-sensit...itch-kit-28574
    http://www.maplin.co.uk/light-activa...tch-kit-528796
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-SSR-25...item4cf71a1c1f "
    also sent wiring diagrams etc. whisper me and I'll send them over

    Not tried it, but thought it might be of interst .
    I've a sunny 4000tl so can use the internal relay to trigger immersion as discussed elsewhere on GBF , another thing for the to do list when work gets quiet ( if only )
    cheers Jim
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2012
     
    james,
    I realise you didn't come up with this, nor have you tried it yourself, but I'm wondering why you need 2 photocells. Presumably if the one looking at the red LED on your meter, only switches 'on' the immersion when the red LED is on continuously, (ie. exporting) then the presence of sun is not relevant? If that works, it's a fantastic solution - worth a shot for a tenner, even if it doesn't quite work.
  2.  
    GP , the photo cell by the panels is set to create the 'on' call when the PV is generating more power than required by the immersion . I think if you just had the 'meter' photocell then you could get the situation when you're exporting , but the PVs generating less than the immersion requires.
    • CommentAuthordbj
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2012
     
    Yes, thanks jamesw for the detailed list of systems out there. I agree , the ones that reduce the current to make all excess power available appear superior,and more to my liking.
    I guess they work like an electronic load controller on a non grid connected water turbine, putting power not currently being 'used' into 'ballast' loads (resistive only).
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2012
     
    James,
    I wonder if when the case you describe occurs (probably quite frequently) that you have export...red light ON...put elect to immersion...draw more power than generating...red light goes off...stop elect to immersion, and let it cycle like that. If you wait till you have enough power for the immersion, @ 3kW, you'd wait long time, and miss out on all the 500W periods.

    I'm going to try it on a neighbours system, and see what happens, but any pointers to obvious flaws in the single photocell approach would be great. My guess at the role of the second photocell was for the non-fluctuation load devices - eg washing machine. So you set the sun monitoring photocell to have a switch-on limit which ensures you have a good supply of PV power, and then a latching relay holds the wachine machine in operation (so it doesn't switch off even if the sun disappears - can't have the washer going off and on).

    This is where good old "JSH" would have come in handy, but I think he drew stumps from this forum??
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2012
     
    We've just taken delivery of our first Immersun unit. After reviewing all the options on the market, I'm convinced these are the best, with direct monitoring of the exported generation levels, and control of the power being sent to the immersion heater so that it always remains just below the spare generated power available.

    There's also a timer option so that you can ensure that the tank is hot at the end of the day via the immersion heater, and / or control a secondary heat source, and each unit has the ability to control 2 immersion heater circuits one after the other.

    plus it actually looks like a well built piece of kit rather than something someone's put together in their shed after a visit to maplins.

    We've previously used the relay function on the SMA inverters to trigger a contactor, but this is a right pain to install as it needs a 1-2kW Immersion heater fitting, which can be a nightmare to do, plus control cables from the inverter to the consumer unit, and customers just find it confusing to use as they have to leave the immersion switch permanently on (yes, people do seem to have a problem with this idea).

    fwiw, we're offering them locally fully installed for £499 inc vat, or less if installed at the same time as a PV system, or other measure such as a voltage optimsation unit.

    I do have some issues with the concept of this technology when replacing water heated by a condensing gas boiler, but the first unit at least is going in to a place that already uses the immersion heater only, and tbh we've been having so many problems making conventional solar water heating work financially without the RHI in place that I've come around to this as being a more practical and cost effective solution to that issue for a lot of people.

    if we're doing links, I'll put mine up for anyone wanting more info about the unit. I won't be offended if it gets removed though.

    http://www.leeds-solar.co.uk/energy-saving/immersun
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